I stand corrected Lilly M can get pregnant

[panjandrumpyjamas]

I asked for a thread to be pulled as I thought I had made a mistake and that Lilly Madigan was in fact just joshing about being able to get pregnant but no...

Lily Madigan Dec 28
‏Womb implants are now possible. It's quite exciting. Expensive currently but yes if I wanted to in the future, reasonably I could get pregnant x
"I think you are unintentionally being transphobic. I can get pregnant. Not right now, which is true of many women. Please don't single me out" Lilly s own words.

twitter.com/madigan_lily/status/946555952303570944

I don t want this to be about LM as such but I think that some parts of the trans community have no idea of the medical implications involved in transition....

Luckily, being on the TERFBLOCKER list I cannot any longer read this bullshit. Which has given me much more time to do housework.

LOL. As if.

Just read Lily's tweets again - so I see that her (millionth) flounce from Twitter, because of 'abusive' tweets and 'negativity', was actually because she didn't like people saying that she couldn't get pregnant!

Seriously, where did Labour find this wally?!

Medical ethics are so 2017.

StoneColdDiva
I don't get sarcasm and jokes anywhere even in real life, totally does my head in.

These sort of ideas and statements about female biology / reproductive systems are highly misogynistic.

A vagina is no more than a "hole", a surgically created version is exactly the same, no hold on it's better as it doesn't stink and do all the revolting things that ones women are born with do.

Just stick a womb in and you can get a baby, this is a male idea reducing pregnancy and childbirth to a "nothing" - it's the vessel idea, the fact that our whole bodies are required for this process is ignored, because if it's something women all over the world are able to do with little effort (men deem it to be little effort as our pain / injury / death around childbirth is inconsequential and can be overlooked) then men must be able to do it better. Medical science (the male centred parts ie most of it) continues to look for ways to remove women from the children thing because we're a bit of an inconvenience - see the recent work involving sheep foetuses being put in bags. Yes it will help with premature babies but the idea of an artificial womb is at the heart of this. The idea that growing inside of a woman and being able to hear her, moving with her, having her particular body around and responding immediately to the needs of the baby - they don't seem to think this is of any consequence. It's the same path as breast milk - and look what's happened with that. Turns out we don't even know the half of all the things that breast milk does and how the woman's body responds to environment to change it to what the baby needs etc etc etc

This whole thing is so blatantly misogynistic I don't even know what to do with it.

Applauds UpABitLate

Womb transplants have (obviously) only been used woman to woman.
In some instances, cross sex transplants are more likely to fail. I cant think of a cross sex transplant that's more likely to fail than sex organs.

Even if the transplant was successful, men don't produce the correct hormones to sustain a pregnancy. I cant believe anyone has to say this in 2017. Its like talking to tiny children who think they can change the world by wishes.

I agree that at 19, LM may be technically an adult but is displaying not a lot of maturity, a high degree of delusion and a complete lack of empathy. People are adolsecents until around their mid-twenties. I would be extremely concerned for their mental wellbeing if I were the Labour Party. A person this vulnerable should not be exposed like this. LM is a victim of this nonesense, not the cause.

Dd (13) once asked me why men seem so threatened by women
After some thought I said that possibly one reason could be that we can do something they can’t- create a new person ( initial input required obvs) . This makes me think I was right and they are trying to take away from us this one thing we have that they can’t ever have.

I've heard it said before that men are threatened by women because of women being able, mostly, to carry babies.

I think it's nonsense. I think women were no threat to men till they got control of their fertility and before they started working etc

I'm not sure what the whole trans thing is about but I don't think we will see many men lining up to have babies.

Perhaps Lily could be directed to this thread currently running on FWR

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3125584-Impact-of-birth-injuries-prolapse-etc?pg=3

Good luck with the old childbirthing Lily.

So why have many of them behaved as if they hate us for so long?

UpABitLate I think you have hit the nail on the head.
There is, in general, a refusal on westernal medical circles to want to acknowledge the complexity of the human body as well as the interrelationship between the different organs.
A direct consequence of that is that pregnancy is ‘just’ a container for a embryo to develop. Hormones, the link with the mother etc... just aren’t taken into account.

I think it’s both an issue with the patriarcal system that out women at the bottom of any studies.
And the fact we have considered the body as different bits sat next to each other wo any relationhsip with each other (think about the fact we have a gynaecologist, heart specialist, lung specialist, liver specialist etc....). That the body is only the sum of its parts and not more than that. Descartes is to blame for that.

I suppose is lily saying that their chance of getting pregnant is equal to mine on a non-fertile day.

Which I Guess is true.

But it's only the same as me saying I'm not world heavyweight boxing champion because I missed a session at the gym last week.

Hopping "So why have many of them behaved as if they hate us for so long?"

are you asking me, hopping?

I am not the authority on anything of course. Well, maybe some box sets

I think they looked down on women when they were just there to rape, have babies, keep house.

I think they became threatened when women showed they could do the same things as men.

So I think the hate has two causes. We're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't. Perhaps now women have autonomy there are some men who think they would worship a wordless women who did as they were told, but I'm not sure they would. Even if they "liked" that one woman they would still hate every other woman.

Remember all the stuff with the hate campaign after a woman was put on the £10 note? I remember a caller to LBC saying "my wife and mother would never behave like that" - he meant, would never dare to compaign for a woman to be on a £10 note.

It all comes down to "woman, know your place".

^Dd (13) once asked me why men seem so threatened by women
After some thought I said that possibly one reason could be that we can do something they can’t- create a new person ( initial input required obvs) .^

That’s not actually correct. We (women) can carry a foetus and nourish it to full maturity, we can’t actually create a new person. To do that you still need a sperm from a man. Neither gender can produce a human being on its own.

I imagine LM envisages a C-section and some hormone injections will do the trick. Maybe the whole womb can just be popped out, like a zit.

By LM's logic, any man can get pregnant because any man can say they could potentially have a womb transplant at some mystical point in the future. So we have a women's officer who thinks both men and women can get pregnant!

Applauds upabitlate

Liam is a revolting little squit who thrives on attention and is therefore best ignored.

He is either a vulnerable teenager who’s not accountable for what he says, or he’s a mature cult fit to hold political office and represent the women in his consistency. He can’t be both.

I can feel their campaign for multi-sex midwifery services developing...

"Loretta's Box" is open for crowd funding.

@Hopping.

I just noticed your text in brackets, BUT by the same token men can do something women can’t (I.e produce sperm), so not really a strong argument for why men may feel threatened by women.

Neither gender can produce a human being on its own

Neither SEX. Gender is a social construct. It bears no relation to the SEX of a person.

UpaBitLate I think you are right.

I also think comparing being on a non-fertile day with lacking the entire reproductive system is shockingly naive - it’s not a matter of age, my pre-teen would understand that he is of the human group (boys/men) which do not carry and birth babies. I don’t believe it is poor education either, I am sure all schools cover reproductive biology (at least, I hope so).

But the argument that not all women can have children is indeed used to support the argument that transwomen are women, despite the wrong biology. Like childbirth is the only important part of being a woman. If I am infertile, I am still biologically a woman, my biology is out of sync for whatever reason. It doesn’t mean I am not a woman.

Gender/sex whatever you get what I mean. I’ve read these Definitions back and forth so many times on MN its all muddled up in my head.

Gender is a social construct. It bears no relation to the SEX of a person.

I disagree.

Gender/sex whatever you get what I mean. I’ve read these Definitions back and forth so many times on MN its all muddled up in my head.

Gender is a social construct. It bears no relation to the SEX of a person.

I disagree.

Can you explain what you think the two definitions are then?

I am biological female, which makes my sex FEMALE.

I like crochet and chainsawing, cooking and sheds. I was an engineer for a majority of my working life. I wear trousers most days, I wear a skirt about 5 times a year. What do you think my gender is? Because i sure as hell don't know...if gender is liked to clothing and things we 'do'.