Feminist Fightback

[ladyballs]

FF has announced on Facebook that they're now supporting transwomen as there is so much transmisogyny in the media. Illustrated with a meme exhorting women to support their sisters, not just cisters.

Ffs.

So basically if you don't think transwomen are literally women then anything else you do or think or advocate or stand up for is completely negated. And, for some reason it also makes you homophobic? Not sure how that works. And if you are prepared to call out women who throw their sisters under a bus for their own advantage you are a misogynist? Fuck me......

Sorry, I missed Deadly's post.

I am looking forward to hearing ALuner's response to that.

Really not sure how you got to that conclusion from I will respond etc on threads, with views that I recognise and understand are in the minority on this board. I am not here to derail anything: I am just expressing opinions in response what I am reading.

But hey, I'm starting to get used to the quirks of this place.

What conclusion?

lunar

You seem to think I'm here to change peoples minds and make you all trans and queer friendly. I'm not. If you have a problem, that will continue to remain your problem.

See the thing is is that most of us ARE trans and queer friendly, but we also want to be able to defend women’s rights in the places where they clash, because they DO clash.
I have spent my entire life within the gay community, I was brought up by two women who tried to give me a ‘gender neutral’ upbringing (total nightmare btw but that’s for a different thread) and when I was a teenager I HATED my female body, I starved myself so I wouldn’t grow breasts and hips and I was convinced I was supposed to be a boy (well Jarvis cocker to be precise).
We aren’t conservative homophobes who hate people who are different but we think that people should be able to express themselves exactly as they wish without being told that there is something wrong with them.
We don’t believe that you can be born into the wrong body, but that your body is perfect and society is wrong. We believe that gender dysphoria is a real and awful condition but that it is a condition that should be supported with great care and we should be looking at structural changes as well as putting plasters over the symptoms of a deep systemic illness which is rigid gender roles brought down by the patriarchy.
We think it’s cruel to tell children that there’s something wrong with their genitals rather than provide a society that says you can be whoever the fuck you want to be.
We also believe that until these changes can happen women need safe spaces away from males as one of the symptoms of (or the whole fucking structure of) the patriachy is Male violence.
Another belief is that women are oppressed due to their biology rather than their gender identity and to not be able to name biological issues that women face (fgm, maternity rights, access to abortions etc) as women’s issues actually stops feminism because how can we fight what we can’t name?

We are not people who hate trans people, in fact there are trans people on these very boards, and it’s not helpful to the conversation to keep painting us in that way.

@ALunerExplorer why aren't FTM trans as vocal?
Why don't you hear a billion stories a week about how triggered, word murdered, excluded and persecuted they are? Why don't they want to be transferred to male prisons and have male guards pat them down? Why isn't the same amount of outrage at using male toilets/male spaces?
Why don't they complain about things marketed at males only? Or tackle condoms companies because u can't use a condom without a penis? Why aren't they as vocal?
Do they not suffer the same trauma and discrimination? Aren't they as important? Why don't they demand that the world revolves around them?
Why don't they threaten rape ,murder and so on? Why don't they tell people to lick their male clit? Why don't they hope for "male erasure"?

I could be going...
If I ever had any doubts about this whole thing, the fact that despite trans including males and females , it's the MEN that are the loudest and demanding about being allowed in female places.

until these changes can happen

This precisely. Post-patriarchy, genderists can have at it. Until then, I'll be fighting to preserve women's rights and existence as a sex class, thankyouverymuch.

My apologies Luner. I thought I had read a comment from you about your daughter being bullied by other girls while at a private school but obviously I am incorrect about that.

Fairly sure that was perfectly. Very similar to Luner actually, but seemingly a different poster.

Yes, I said above I thought it was Perfectly, but I was having trouble differentiating the rash of new TRA posters because they all sound so similar.

For no particular reason I was surprised that MN has as many ,or possibly more, sock puppets as every other forums where feminist women gather.
I feel a lot of sympathy for young girls who found their only defense against boys pornsick demands for blow jobs during lunch break was to declare themselves asexual or demisexual. It's heart breaking, really.

BertrandRussell

Thanks for the welcome! I’m not in the UK, so my timing is often off replying to posts.

I would count myself to be queer and trans friendly, but never at the expense of women.

And for the PP who said they love men wearing skirts and makeup etc as it disrupts gender roles, I completely agree. I was so fucking disappointed that Eddie Izzard now considers himself a trans woman. I loved his line about not wearing women’s clothes because they were his clothes that he chose and bought and paid for, so they were his clothes.

But as it turns out, he did think he was wearing women’s clothes.

How going from a gender critical attitude to gender esssentialist is seen as progressive is beyond me.

Slap I feel exactly the same about Izzard, I used to think he was an amazing example, but no - he buys into the idea of "ladybrain" and makeup being a "girls thing".

Yes, Eddie Izard is a huge disapointment to me.

Grayson Perry is very interesting on men and maleness.

I really love Grayson. I was first inspired by his work on class. I eye rolled at the dresses, but as I read more about him the more I liked him. He calls himself a transvestite and is quite open about it all - I think (reading between the lines) he thinks the TRA type of trans is nuts. I read an article once in which he said he was 'the wrong type of trannie' for them ...

Maybe eventually you'll stop being trans exclusionary - it must be exhausting freaking out over imaginary bathroom problems all the time.

You're either being deliberately disingenuous or a GF or both. To say that this is all about toilets and rights to wee or poo, is deliberately undermining the validity of our concerns and mocking our genuine fears.

Straw man. Smoke screen.
Whatever you want to call it. How about we address the whole picture here and we can discuss the real worries that we have instead of these little throwaway comments that you're making to trivialise what we are fearing.

I'm betting you even call yourself a feminist?

That was to Battlecuntgalactica.

Male violence is the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known.

The frustrating thing when you lurk here, is how often posters have similar thoughts but attack each other from misunderstanding. Battle and luner's underlying position isn't incompatible with the gender critical posters here, but the focus becomes shifted according to the trans discussion.

I don't think I've read anyone here have a problem with TIMs or TIWs, only with aggressive activists.

Another fan of Grayson Perry here. I like the way he talks about cross-dressing as another aspect of himself but emphasises that it's a way of expanding the man box rather than Buffalo Bill-ing women. The TV series he did about identity was fascinating. As was the one on masculinity. He really connected with the cage fighters.