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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Feminist Fightback

195 replies

ladyballs · 29/12/2017 12:11

FF has announced on Facebook that they're now supporting transwomen as there is so much transmisogyny in the media. Illustrated with a meme exhorting women to support their sisters, not just cisters.

Ffs.

OP posts:
RebelRogue · 30/12/2017 21:40

And I used to be a handmaiden Grin(still have some leftovers) . I could not relate to females or the idea of what i was told they were ,so i was more than ready to defend the males,my tribe, the ones i related to and understood. In a very simplistic way, I thought like them, I acted like them sometimes but I wasn't x,y,z so they couldn't be either. I took the "hate" personally and if the argument wouldn't apply to me because i was was a girl,but not to them because they were boys , then it was stupid and irrelevant. Meh I grew up eventually.

Ereshkigal · 30/12/2017 21:41

I'm new here and you lot a like a pack of fucking wolves.

Goodness.

guardianfree · 30/12/2017 21:48

ALunerExplorer
You seem to do a fair bit of 'criticising' others yourself if your posts on this and the other thread are anything to go by?

ALunerExplorer · 30/12/2017 21:59

Except I wasn't. I was making conversation. On this thread (as an example) Page 1, mines the third comment, in response to the second.

All I came looking for was conversation.

As it wasn't from the approved MN Conversation hymnal (please point me to a copy, so that I know what it is I am allowed to say and not say for future reference).

BarrackerBarmer · 30/12/2017 22:02

Redefining words part 2:
"You lot are like a pack of fucking wolves"
= You lot keep refusing to agree with me and I don't like your facts.

ALunerExplorer · 30/12/2017 22:06

Neither implied, said or stated.

I am simply saying that when I express a different pov to what I can of course see is the majority view around here, could I do so without being falsely excused of derailing a thread.

BarrackerBarmer · 30/12/2017 22:11

What exactly IS your pov? I mean, other than wolves and biphobia I can't make out what point you want to make or discuss.

ALunerExplorer · 30/12/2017 22:16

Well, fine - but lets stick to this thread then because y'know..

Page 1, my response to the second comment.

That's where this started. If you're still not sure what my pov is (I mean I could emblazon LGBTIAA Ally on my username if you like, but I'd have thought it was pretty damn self evident frankly. It is why all this started).

And pardon my dramatic turn of phrase. You're just the most unwelcoming bunch of women I've come across in a while.

ALunerExplorer · 30/12/2017 22:17

Damn.

I missed out the Q.

guardianfree · 30/12/2017 22:17

Luner There isn't an agreed 'conversation hymnal' and it's a bit rude to suggest that there is, as is telling posters that they "needed to actually listen" when they disagreed with a poster which you also did on this thread.
Honestly Luner, there really isn't one belief, language or tone on here. What there is are lots of feminists discussing, often with passion, insight, humour and a lot of integrity, very challenging and difficult issues that matter to women.
There has always been a trail of short term posters who 'plop' onto threads on here, are rude, derail, make accusations and then disappear - usually because their accusations are never evidenced and their intention is simply to disrupt and derail.

ALunerExplorer · 30/12/2017 22:20

I hadn't derailed. I had come looking for conversation: and I wasn't rude

But I was defensive - please to see from page 1 of this thread.

Ereshkigal · 30/12/2017 22:21

I missed out the Q.

Don't worry, it's unlikely that anyone will pick you up on that here Grin

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 30/12/2017 22:56

Growing up I was always told how wrong the things i was doing or wanted were because I was a girl

YY. It's such a common experience. And demonstrates the harmfulness of reifying gender stereotypes

What era or eras are you talking about? I don't recognise this as a common experience of my and my contemporaries experience of girlhood in the 70s; I don't recognise it in the experiences of my friends and relatives daughters or the many, many young women I have mentored as trainees over the years.

There is a long post by MentholBreeze describing her family set up (which sounds great btw) and ends That is rad fem. Is it? It just sounds like the way people I know run their lives.

CoteDAzur · 30/12/2017 22:57

"have my own uterus... I don’t ID as a woman"

Assuming that the uterus in question is part of you, identifying as a woman or not changes nothing at all. You are what you are, as is everyone who has ever lived, regardless of what they might feel about their physical reality.

A hen identifying as a cock is still a hen.

A cow identifying as a bull is still a cow.

A human being identifying as a cat is still a human being.

EnthusiasticEdna · 30/12/2017 23:06

Guardian I agree about the passion, insight, humour and integrity on here. I love reading this board but regret posting when I attempt it. The unwritten rule here (and I've been a lurker for a long time and read masses of content) is that you need to establish yourself as worth listening to before you can influence the direction of discussion on any thread and there will be no politeness (though you won't be expected to be polite either) and little in the way of female solidarity unless or until you have demonstrated your agreement with a fairly narrow set of beliefs ('pure' radical feminism?). I say that as someone who agrees with most of the echoes in the chamber. It isn't a friendly place for visitors. That's why they don't appear to stay long. Except maybe they do, but just stop trying to contribute.

RebelRogue · 30/12/2017 23:12

@LassWiTheDelicateAir I'm only 32 ,it's not that far back an era.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 30/12/2017 23:21

I grew up in the 70s and although things like toys were not quite as gendered as they are now gendered attitudes certainly prevailed and I strongly remember 'libbers' being ridiculed. As a child I was definitely told there were things I could and could not do, both by adults and children.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 30/12/2017 23:33

In fact, in the 70s I remember several instances where 'gender barriers' were broken, but it was the exception that proved the rule (Thatcher, Valentina Tereshkova, first woman commercial pilot etc.), but jobs, especially for working class kids were still very gendered. Paul Willis made that point quite well in Learning to Labour, which is also (of course) about class and masculinity.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 30/12/2017 23:39

RebelRogue

@LassWiTheDelicateAir I'm only 32 ,it's not that far back an era

So roughly more or less the ages of friends' and relatives' daughters ,my female assistants and my son's girl friends and female friends. What you describe just seems terribly at odds with what I know of them.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 30/12/2017 23:46

Things were far worse in the 70s and 80s with regard to opportunities for women, female role models, access to male spaces (clubs, pubs etc), acceptance of domestic violence etc etc etc.

And we now know that there was an epidemic of child sex abuse taking place with the full knowledge of the institutions which were supposed to protect them.

Because women and children were absolutely fair game in the 70s. Watch any TV from the period, it's right there.

BarrackerBarmer · 30/12/2017 23:47

'Beliefs' are irrelevant.
An ability to be rational, use logic, fairness, honesty and integrity are what matter if one wishes to influence most posters here.
In fact, if someone wants to invoke beliefs, as in faith based, factually unsupported myths, they are going to find it difficult to persuade others here.

When you say "until you have demonstrated your agreement with a fairly narrow set of beliefs ('pure' radical feminism?)", I wonder what you mean.

I think people tend to be pretty fact and evidence based here, and very open to challenge.

What are these beliefs you reference here?

thebewilderness · 30/12/2017 23:54

I'm new here and you lot a like a pack of fucking wolves.
I'm new here too and you, alunarexplorer, are like every umbrage addict I have ever met on every Feminist blog EVAH!

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 30/12/2017 23:55

Because women and children were absolutely fair game in the 70s. Watch any TV from the period, it's right there

I was a teenager from 1972 to 1978. I agree what you say about television but that wasn't my point. I was referring to the "women are told they can't..." anecdotes. I don't recall the 70s being like that - quite the opposite.

thebewilderness · 30/12/2017 23:57

It was still like that in the seventies. Not as bad as the fifties, but srsly! Baby steps.

guardianfree · 31/12/2017 00:05

EnthusiasticEdna
Sometimes I feel a bit as if I've unexpectedly been moved into the top set and am struggling to keep up Grin
I suppose we're all so different in experience, knowledge, life skills etc. I am constantly in awe of those posters who have a deep intellectual analysis of feminism and post such clear fluent and thoughtful posts.
I do see a lot of humour here but I suspect that it is the nature of the subject matter that means it's not a 'fluffy welcoming ' board but is more edgy?

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