Feminist Fightback

[ladyballs]

FF has announced on Facebook that they're now supporting transwomen as there is so much transmisogyny in the media. Illustrated with a meme exhorting women to support their sisters, not just cisters.

Ffs.

every umbrage addict

"and little in the way of female solidarity unless or until you have demonstrated your agreement with a fairly narrow set of beliefs ('pure' radical feminism?"

What sort of beliefs do you mean? It seems to me that there is very little consensus on here at all-and radical feminists are actually in a minority!

And I suppose that the point of the FWR boards is that they are about feminism, which is not a sitting in a circle holding hands singing kum by yah sort of movement, but an angry, fierce, political thing, which sees unfairness and inequality and struggles against it.

@LassWiTheDelicateAir I might be an anomaly(doubt it) but it was my experience growing up and as a teen, but I am glad others haven't had the same experience. It wasn't pretty or easy.

I suppose it was like now, lass, in that some parents do their best to avoid stereotypes and let their little boy wear princess dresses or their girl play with cars, and some are seriously against it.

I don't know what the exact % split is now - or what it would have been then - but I imagine both exist/ed at both times.

(I in the 80s was quite "gender-free" toy wise, my favourite toy was my train set, but clothes were a different matter. There were scruffy casual clothes, but lots of frilly dresses. By the 90s when my youngest sister was born, toys had become a lot pinker in just a few years)

Really edna? I've been here for ages now, seen a lot of people start posting and I think we have a good range of views. I didn't feel I had to earn the right to be listened to. So many people name change it's hard to keep up.
I do think however we have a sharp focus on issues affecting women, but that's only to be expected from a feminism board Surely?

I really wish I felt that there was a radical feminist majority on FWR- it would be a truly glorious place.

However, I think the liberals hold sway.

I lurk on fwr a lot, I post rarely but certainly have never felt not listened to.

I appreciate the robust, well reasoned discussion on here. Haven't found it unwelcoming at all, quite the opposite. In fact I sometimes come here specifically for the friendly matter of fact common sense after a wander through the madness that is AIBU.

Yy I agree, I’m a relative beginner in radical feminism and the history of feminism and I’m currently getting to know my own ideas - so appreciate not being ripped apart here (unlike in AIBU right now )

Be very wary of what people call radical feminism on here-it's often nothing of the sort.

What would you define as radical feminism?

Radical feminism is the sort of feminism that thinks that there needs to be structural change for equality to happen- it can’t “start from here”.........

Yep, I’m another newcomer who loves the discussions on here and the patience and intelligence and empathy of most of the posters.

Haven’t posted much on the Feminism threads, but I’m just coming to terms with peak-transing out of liberal feminism into the radical.

"Haven’t posted much on the Feminism threads, but I’m just coming to terms with peak-transing out of liberal feminism into the radical."
Delighted to welcome a baby radical But I feel honour bound to tell you that you can be a liberal feminist and gender critical. But it's much more fun over here with the radicals.

I don’t know how it’s possible to be gender critical and not radical. Isn’t gender part of the structure of our society that keeps all of us in our own boxes and conforming to expected roles? Abolition of gender has to come from re-working societal views - starting again?

What era or eras are you talking about? I don't recognise this as a common experience of my and my contemporaries experience of girlhood in the 70s; I don't recognise it in the experiences of my friends and relatives daughters or the many, many young women I have mentored as trainees over the years.

I was born mid-80's, and was a teen during the 90's/early 2000's. I heard plenty about what girls couldn't do, and what girls should do.

I have kids now who are hearing the same shit.

I wonder whether it's to some extent a class thing? From my observation the aspirations of well educated middle class girls are much closer to the aspirations of their middle class male peers than those of working class girls are to their male peers. Ovaerved anecdotal only- I can't show evidence.

Never been my experience. It's not a class thing. I'm working class, so many, if not most, of my IRL feminist sisters (all of whom are queer and trans inclusive). Most of my queer and trans friends are working class, and all of my daughters friends are too.

Feminists who aren't queer and trans inclusive also come from across the class spectrum. There are plenty of platformed trans exclusive feminists who are screamingly middle class.

MN itself was hardly a working class endeavour either, was it?

Sorry- my post about lass was in response to Lass talking about having no personal experience of gender stereotyping or of women and girls being held back in employment or education by their sex. This thread has several different themes running concurrently......

ALuner I am friends with a lot of liberal, trans-inclusive feminists as well as radical feminists, and even some who do not call themselves feminists at all. They cover a wide range of ages, classes and cultural backgrounds, and I know from talking to them that most (if not all) have experienced plenty of instances of being told that there are things they cannot or should not do because they are female.

I would be surprised if you are truly surrounded by women who have never experienced this.

Have you ever heard of the Let Toys be Toys campaign? Or Pink Stinks? In my experience both of these campaigns are supported by rad and lib feminists alike, because both groups are aware that children are bombarded with social conditioning and want to see a change. This doesn't quite tally with your assertion that the "girls can't" message isn't widespread.

It would also mean that, if you were right, then campaigns like This Girl Can were obsolete.

Hang on-I'm confused. What point were you responding to, ALunar?

I wonder whether it's to some extent a class thing? From my observation the aspirations of well educated middle class girls are much closer to the aspirations of their middle class male peers than those of working class girls are to their male peers. Ovaerved anecdotal only- I can't show evidence

As per my previous post (which I think was on this thread) gender barriers are IMO often class related. Middle-class girls were 'allowed' to be doctors and lawyers long before working class girls (such as myself) were allowed to be lots of things, including university educated. When I grew up it was working in a factory, retail, bank clerk, teacher or nurse.

It's got confusing hasn't it?

Someone posted

"Growing up I was always told how wrong the things i was doing or wanted were because I was a girl"

ALuner replied with, "What era or eras are you talking about? I don't recognise this as a common experience of my and my contemporaries experience of girlhood in the 70s"

So apparently ALuner and all of her acquaintances have never experienced being told that there are things they cannot or should not do or like due to being female.

Which is very lucky isn't it?

"What exactly IS your pov? I mean, other than wolves and biphobia I can't make out what point you want to make or discuss."

I agree with Barraker. I do have one hell of a hangover but I have RTFT and still don't know what the fuck Luner and Battle are on about. And the attacks on rad fems are simply baffling