Does anyone feel the need to reclaim femnism.....?

[BertrandRussell]

So many important issues just seem to be falling by the wayside. When did we last have any sort of discussion about reproductive rights in US? The Million Woman March-remember that? Weinstein and the follow up? FGM? The abortion debate in Ireland?

As for your list- I suggest you use your imagination.

And maybe consider why, as a liberal feminist, you find the term so problematic.

Women and men collude with, excuse and enable misogynistic behaviour and have done so for millenia. It is not gendered behaviour.

My imagination doesn't come into it, you said that it denotes very specific behaviour. What very specific behaviours are you talking about Bert?

Dione - I know that you are being disingenuous. I also know that you seem to enjoy poking me with a stick- for whatever reason. I have made myself perfectly clear. Any lack of understanding is entirely yours.

DioneTheDiabolist - do you feel the need to reclaim feminism? And if so, from whom? Let's get back to the topic at hand, eh?

No there is no link to a comprehensive list, you dull goady person. It's a figure of speech that represents women who actively work against women's rights by supporting men's interests and throwing women as a class under the bus. I don't need to write a dissertation every time I use it.

Once again, I am not being disingenuous and you have not made yourself clear. You said very specific behaviour, yet you have not specified the behaviours. I detest the term Handmaiden, and will continue to challenge it's use. As a gendered insult it is deeply misogynistic as both men and women collude with, enable and excuse misogyny.

But the Handmaids in the Handmaids Tale were all victims surely. And isn't the woman who serves her husband unquestioningly a victim too? I agree that both men and women reinforce mysogyny unknowingly but it doesn't serve the women so I don't think it's fair to use gendered slurs against them. Neither sex workers who say it's a vocation.

I detest the term Handmaiden, and will continue to challenge it's use

Good for you. I'll continue to use it when I feel it's appropriate as I can't think of a better term to communicate that behaviour. And will continue to challenge tone policing, concern trolling and being made to walk on eggshells.

A handmaiden is a woman who uses misogynistic behaviour against another women. Its not always unknowing. It can be deliberate and intentional.

As a description it may be considered insulting by the recipient. But its not misogynistic to call women out on their misogyny.

Yes Edna, the Handmaiden were victims. In the Handmaiden Tale, the system was facilitated more by Wives, Aunt's and Marthas rather than Handmaids which makes its modern usage even more incomprehensible.

My reason for starting this thread was realizing that I would not be at all surprised if absolutely nothing changes after the Pussy March/Weinstein/#metoo events. Everything will just settle back down the way it was before with very little if any change. It reminds me of s scrap of poetry- “The East bowed low before the blast In patient deep distain, It watched the legions thunder past And plunged in thought again”

Irk, I agree it is not misogynistic to call women out on their misogyny. Gendered insults coined specifically for use against women are misogynistic.

DioneTheDiabolist
Do you think that TERF is misogynistic?

I'm inclined to agree with you there Bertrand. There is no shift in power so we revert to the status quo. I do feel that women turning on each other in the #metoo campaign is contributing to its imminent demise though

@BertrandRussell nothing will change.Well not significantly anyways , or anything more than surface level.
The hope is that things will change eventually .

Sorry I'm probably not making any sense.

Things will change, just in baby steps. I hope.

The term handmaiden existed before the handmaid's tale though. I've never linked the two. Surely a handmaid is someone who caters to your every whim? 'You' being 'the patriarchy'.

Yes Irk I do.

Certain, when did it start being used?

Historically, a handmaid is just a lady's maid, isn't it?

Though there are many specific bible references re handmaidens. Leah, Rachel, Sarah are the women with handmaidens that spring to mind

From wiki, as I'm not a bible expert!

"Rachel, like Sarah and Rebecca, remained unable to conceive. According to Tikva Frymer-Kensky, "The infertility of the matriarchs has two effects: it heightens the drama of the birth of the eventual son, marking Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph as special; and it emphasizes that pregnancy is an act of God."[5]

Rachel became jealous of Leah and gave Jacob her maidservant, Bilhah, to be a surrogate mother for her. Bilhah gave birth to two sons that Rachel named and raised (Dan and Naphtali). Leah responds by offering her handmaid Zilpah to Jacob, and names and raises the two sons (Gad and Asher) that Zilpah bears. According to some commentaries, Bilhah and Zilpah are actually half-sisters of Leah and Rachel.[6] After Leah conceived again, Rachel was finally blessed with a son, Joseph,[3] who would become Jacob's favorite child."

Certain, when did it start being used?

I think the Oxford English dictionary will be your etymological helpmeet here.

We're not suggesting that Margaret Atwood invented the word are we?

I meant when it started to be used by some feminists to insult/define other women.

No obviously but Margaret Atwood didn't change its meaning. The handmaiden is powerless

Actually that's not right is it. The handmaiden does have the potential for a kind of subversive power but only through a resistant will.