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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My neighbour Steve

144 replies

xxnamechangexx · 19/12/2017 21:49

I live in a block of flats.

I've been in my flat for a long time now. It's nothing overly fancy, but it's mine and I worked pretty hard to get it and I've done a lot of work on it making it into a space I can call home.

Across the hall from me is a flat where a group of guys live. They have a lot of friends round and there's always different ones coming and going. I don't really know them but I've had a lot of issues with some of them. Comments, pushy behaviour, that sort of thing.

Not all of them are like that of course. One or two of them even seem quite nice, but some of them have been a nightmare. One or two them of them make me quite glad when I've locked the door behind but you learn to avoid eye contact and get inside sharpish. No big deal I guess.

Some time ago another guy, Steve, moved in with them.

Steve is a bit different to the others.

Most of the men he lives with are fine about that but a couple of them have been pretty dickish about it. He's had some trouble with a few of them and one of them was violent towards him a while back. I feel for him because I know what they can be like. Not all of them - most of them are fine as I say, but one or two of them are pretty threatening and aggressive and I can understand why Steve doesn't always feel safe.

I don't know Steve that well but I've supported him where I can with this. We've talked about how awful they can be and I've given him witness statements when the violence happened. It's settled down since then but sometimes when there's a lot of them or they've been drinking I know he feels unsafe.

So anyway, sometime I said Steve could come to mine when he wanted to. I wanted him to be able to come into mine if it was kicking off again or if it was getting lairy or he didn't feel safe. I know I was taking a bit of a risk here but Steve seems pretty harmless and I understand what these guys are like - after all I've been getting shit from them for years.

So, now Steve sometimes comes into my house. It's not a formal arrangement and to be honest we didn't even really discuss it. I just kind of let him now he could when he needed to and he seemed to understand. We don't really talk, he doesn't bother me he just sometimes uses my space when he doesn't feel safe.

Some of my friends think I'm a bit crazy letting him do this, but it's worked for a while now. I've never had any trouble and in any case, if anything did happen it's my house, I can tell Steve to leave.

I've never needed to though and it's worked fine for ages with no problems.

Until last week.

Last week Steve told me that he was no longer happy with just being able to come in. He said it made him feel like he didn't really belong in my flat. He told me he feels he's more like me than then men in his flat.

I was completely taken aback. Of course, he doesn't really belong there - it's my flat.

So I suggested to Steve that he got his own place. It seemed like a good solution to me. After all, he wasn't comfortable where he was and whilst I didn't mind him using my space it still made me uncomfortable sometimes. I mean it's my flat after all. I’ve worked hard for it.

Anyway, Steve didn't like that idea. He didn't see why he should have to get his own space just because these of the way these men behaved and he really liked my place and he felt comfortable there. He also said he had a lot more friends who had the same issue he was having with these guys and he needed them to be able to use my place.

Steve had a solution.

Steve decided that what I should do was remove my door lock. That way he could in whenever he needed to. As could anyone else who needed to hang out in my place to avoid these men. Locking my door wasn't fair to him he said. He wanted to be able to come in any time he liked. He felt like he belonged there and he was entitled to be there.

Obviously, my jaw hit the floor at this point.

I pointed out to Steve that this was insane. Without a front door lock how the hell would I safe? Anyone could come into my flat at any time. How would this make Steve safe? The very guys he came to my flat to avoid could now just wander in unchallenged.

Steve assured me they wouldn't do that. He pointed out that if they really wanted to come in and hurt me, a lock wouldn't stop them, they would just break in. So, taking the lock off didn't make any difference. The only people who would come in, he told me, was him and people like him. People who didn't want to do me any harm.

Obviously, I told him to fuck off. This was insane. At this point Steve got really upset and starting saying I didn't trust him enough to remove my lock and I clearly thought he was some sort of pervert or threat. I’m not threatened by Steve, but I'm clearly not going to take the lock off my front door and let anyone come in. That's just crazy.

The more I said no the angrier Steve got. The more he accused me of hating him and not understanding how threatened he felt. I couldn't get my head around this. Clearly, I didn't hate him - in fact I always thought I was a bit of an ally. Not to mention I'd been getting shit off these guys for the last 20 years. I wasn't threatened by him, I was threatened by opening up my flat to anyone who wanted to come in. And without a lock, how could I even challenge people. I'd offered an open invitation.

I told Steve it wasn't going to happen.

To be honest, at this point, given the vitriol of his reaction I wasn't even sure I wanted Steve coming in my flat anymore. I told him to go.
I was pretty stunned but I thought that was the end of it. I was wrong.
Steve went to the committee that manages the flats. He told them about how threatened he was and how he needed a safe space. He explained why he didn't want his own space but how mine was perfect for his needs and he belonged there. It was his right.

The committee agreed with him.

Steve, they said, was getting such a hard time from the guys across the hall that they agreed I should remove my front door lock so he could get access to my flat.

I told them about all the issues I had had and how unsafe I would be but they wouldn't listen.

I told them that if I took of my lock the very guys Steve wanted to avoid could just walk in.

That won't happen, they said.

You're hysterical, they said.

After that things got a lot worse. Steve, his friends and the committee started telling me how unfair I was to Steve.

They said I clearly wished him harm and they made up new words to insult me. Every time I told them I wanted Steve to be safe but I didn't want to open up my flat to anyone I was shouted down, told I was a bigot and told I was hurting Steve.

Steve rang my employer and told them I was bullying him and I nearly lost my job. Even some of my friends turned against me.

Next week the committee are meeting to decide if I have to remove my lock. I’m not invited to the meeting. The only people there are Steve and the committee. I’m told this doesn’t affect me so my view doesn’t need to be heard.

Today I heard Steve’s running the committee.

I don’t think I’ll be getting to keep my lock.

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 22/12/2017 17:46

Nuffaluf OP's Steve is the female Steve. My Steve is male!

Nuh uh. Back to remedial science class for you.

perfectly · 22/12/2017 18:20

Maryz 'a woman with a beard can show she's a woman'

How exactly is this going to be proved?

thebewilderness · 22/12/2017 19:17

perfectly you have repeated this lie numerous times on this and other threads. You have been provided the actual statistics that demonstrate that you are repeating a lie on numerous threads.
"Menthol and that is your choice to make, but you have to understand the majority of women don't have a problem with Steves or Andrews so it's unfair to try and ban them from public spaces we all happily share."
No, the majority of women do not wish to share their restrooms, refuges, changing rooms, or dormitories, with trans identified males.
The reason for this is that they are perfectly aware that male violence is the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known.
The other half of the population needs to sort themselves out instead of expecting women to do it for them.
Trans identified males appear to be perfectly safe in the men's room. Your claim that members of a sexually dimorphic species like human cannot tell the difference between males and females is absurd.
In the UK there are more trans identified male perps who commit murder than there are trans identified male victims.

Maryz · 22/12/2017 20:21

If she is a woman she takes her driving licence out of her bag and shows it to the refuge/university/swimming pool etc etc.

If she doesn't want to be a woman any more, and has legally (under present law) changed her identity, I'm surprised she wants to use women's facilities. If she really does, though, she can go to those in charge, present her credentials, talk about her history and get permission to use the women's.

Why she would simultaneously want to present as a man (and have everyone think she's a man) but use the women's I don't know Confused

BatShite · 22/12/2017 22:46

This is the whole fucking basis of sex segregation. Good men don't shout 'but let me in, you can trust ME'. They know if they are out walking alone at night and there's a woman also out alone, that they need to not walk up behind her - and ideally will cross the road - so that she doesn't feel threatened. They don't walk 2 paces behind her and shout 'how DARE you assume I'm a rapist?'

YY

Asgardianmale · 23/12/2017 01:41

All I know is if Steve comes into my house I will eject him via a size 10 steel toe capped boot.

RogueBiscuit · 23/12/2017 01:52

I'll fix that for you perfectly.

I'm really odd and I spend my time with male friends who are either gay or raging agps. I pretend these men are female and I call them women. Because I'm right on and virtuous, I actively campaign for these men to be able to look at your half dressed daughter and I believe my male friend has the right to force you to look at his horrible nude body. He also has the right to give personal care to your elderly mother against her will. I will never accept that women should be able to choose for themselves and will continue to campaign for my male friends rights to access small children. Some people might think I sound like a pedophile but I don't care. Next year I am going to campaign for my male friends right to breed with women whether they like it or not.

RogueBiscuit · 23/12/2017 01:55

Let her in !

RogueBiscuit · 23/12/2017 02:30

Your coming across as a right minion perfectly, you really are. Do your friends actually ask you to campaign like this on their behalf, or do you do it off your own back? Are they actually bleating to you that they cannot go in changing rooms where little girls are?

If they are why don't they do their own shit work? Why don't they go down the pub and try to convince the dad's there that they should be able to change next to their small daughter and that they're harmless? Daft question really because they've got you to do it for them. What exactly is your Steve doing while you're on here bleating about him?

This thing, that you and other women do, reminds me of those creepy couples where the women actively finds victims for the man, because she is perceived as less threatening. I would LOVE to know how many pitiful conversations your Steve has had with other men.

gingergenius · 23/12/2017 03:09

I liked it too.

SuperLemonCrush · 30/10/2024 16:52

This is a great thread, took me a while to track it down - can’t believe I first read it in 2017! Thanks to xxnamechangerxx - still insightful (and obviously memorable).

Ereshkigal · 30/10/2024 16:54

Yes it was a blast from the past rereading this! Wonder if perfectly still holds the same view nearly 7 years on. I know I do!

xxnamechangexx · 30/10/2024 18:49

It was me that wrote it - under a name change obvs. And I do feel the same just more tired and more angry.

OP posts:
xxnamechangexx · 30/10/2024 18:54

Oh - I’m catgirl 1976 - I didn’t realise it would still show my name change if I posted on this thread again I thought it would go back to my normal name

OP posts:
SuperLemonCrush · 30/10/2024 19:28

Amazing, how nice to be able to thank you “personally”!
I first read this about the same time as a professional colleague/contact transitioned, felt so confused and unsettled at their behaviour and my response to it, and reading about “Steve” really clarified, for me, what I was feeling.
I think I’d also just seen The Danish Girl which clarified everything else! So, Catgirl, very grateful for your clever creation and hope you are pleased that I am about to introduce Steve to the next generation 😁

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5198932-help-finding-a-thread

RoyalCorgi · 30/10/2024 19:35

I do remember reading this now, but how amazing that it was seven years ago. Congratulations, OP, it's an absolute cracker.

xxnamechangexx · 30/10/2024 19:40

I’d forgotten I wrote it! Blast from the past. Sadly I don’t think anything has changed. Although…maybe…slowly…

And things like the Forstarter case have been positive

OP posts:
Mochudubh · 30/10/2024 22:21

I read almost the whole first page (I view on 100 per page) and thought "Wow, that nails it". before I even realised it was from 2017, which I think may have been a little before I discovered MN, certainly before I took any notice of the FWR board.

It's more than a bit disconcerting that it's still so very pertinent though.

SuperLemonCrush · 30/10/2024 23:01

Yes, this totally needs an update, Catgirl!

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