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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My neighbour Steve

144 replies

xxnamechangexx · 19/12/2017 21:49

I live in a block of flats.

I've been in my flat for a long time now. It's nothing overly fancy, but it's mine and I worked pretty hard to get it and I've done a lot of work on it making it into a space I can call home.

Across the hall from me is a flat where a group of guys live. They have a lot of friends round and there's always different ones coming and going. I don't really know them but I've had a lot of issues with some of them. Comments, pushy behaviour, that sort of thing.

Not all of them are like that of course. One or two of them even seem quite nice, but some of them have been a nightmare. One or two them of them make me quite glad when I've locked the door behind but you learn to avoid eye contact and get inside sharpish. No big deal I guess.

Some time ago another guy, Steve, moved in with them.

Steve is a bit different to the others.

Most of the men he lives with are fine about that but a couple of them have been pretty dickish about it. He's had some trouble with a few of them and one of them was violent towards him a while back. I feel for him because I know what they can be like. Not all of them - most of them are fine as I say, but one or two of them are pretty threatening and aggressive and I can understand why Steve doesn't always feel safe.

I don't know Steve that well but I've supported him where I can with this. We've talked about how awful they can be and I've given him witness statements when the violence happened. It's settled down since then but sometimes when there's a lot of them or they've been drinking I know he feels unsafe.

So anyway, sometime I said Steve could come to mine when he wanted to. I wanted him to be able to come into mine if it was kicking off again or if it was getting lairy or he didn't feel safe. I know I was taking a bit of a risk here but Steve seems pretty harmless and I understand what these guys are like - after all I've been getting shit from them for years.

So, now Steve sometimes comes into my house. It's not a formal arrangement and to be honest we didn't even really discuss it. I just kind of let him now he could when he needed to and he seemed to understand. We don't really talk, he doesn't bother me he just sometimes uses my space when he doesn't feel safe.

Some of my friends think I'm a bit crazy letting him do this, but it's worked for a while now. I've never had any trouble and in any case, if anything did happen it's my house, I can tell Steve to leave.

I've never needed to though and it's worked fine for ages with no problems.

Until last week.

Last week Steve told me that he was no longer happy with just being able to come in. He said it made him feel like he didn't really belong in my flat. He told me he feels he's more like me than then men in his flat.

I was completely taken aback. Of course, he doesn't really belong there - it's my flat.

So I suggested to Steve that he got his own place. It seemed like a good solution to me. After all, he wasn't comfortable where he was and whilst I didn't mind him using my space it still made me uncomfortable sometimes. I mean it's my flat after all. I’ve worked hard for it.

Anyway, Steve didn't like that idea. He didn't see why he should have to get his own space just because these of the way these men behaved and he really liked my place and he felt comfortable there. He also said he had a lot more friends who had the same issue he was having with these guys and he needed them to be able to use my place.

Steve had a solution.

Steve decided that what I should do was remove my door lock. That way he could in whenever he needed to. As could anyone else who needed to hang out in my place to avoid these men. Locking my door wasn't fair to him he said. He wanted to be able to come in any time he liked. He felt like he belonged there and he was entitled to be there.

Obviously, my jaw hit the floor at this point.

I pointed out to Steve that this was insane. Without a front door lock how the hell would I safe? Anyone could come into my flat at any time. How would this make Steve safe? The very guys he came to my flat to avoid could now just wander in unchallenged.

Steve assured me they wouldn't do that. He pointed out that if they really wanted to come in and hurt me, a lock wouldn't stop them, they would just break in. So, taking the lock off didn't make any difference. The only people who would come in, he told me, was him and people like him. People who didn't want to do me any harm.

Obviously, I told him to fuck off. This was insane. At this point Steve got really upset and starting saying I didn't trust him enough to remove my lock and I clearly thought he was some sort of pervert or threat. I’m not threatened by Steve, but I'm clearly not going to take the lock off my front door and let anyone come in. That's just crazy.

The more I said no the angrier Steve got. The more he accused me of hating him and not understanding how threatened he felt. I couldn't get my head around this. Clearly, I didn't hate him - in fact I always thought I was a bit of an ally. Not to mention I'd been getting shit off these guys for the last 20 years. I wasn't threatened by him, I was threatened by opening up my flat to anyone who wanted to come in. And without a lock, how could I even challenge people. I'd offered an open invitation.

I told Steve it wasn't going to happen.

To be honest, at this point, given the vitriol of his reaction I wasn't even sure I wanted Steve coming in my flat anymore. I told him to go.
I was pretty stunned but I thought that was the end of it. I was wrong.
Steve went to the committee that manages the flats. He told them about how threatened he was and how he needed a safe space. He explained why he didn't want his own space but how mine was perfect for his needs and he belonged there. It was his right.

The committee agreed with him.

Steve, they said, was getting such a hard time from the guys across the hall that they agreed I should remove my front door lock so he could get access to my flat.

I told them about all the issues I had had and how unsafe I would be but they wouldn't listen.

I told them that if I took of my lock the very guys Steve wanted to avoid could just walk in.

That won't happen, they said.

You're hysterical, they said.

After that things got a lot worse. Steve, his friends and the committee started telling me how unfair I was to Steve.

They said I clearly wished him harm and they made up new words to insult me. Every time I told them I wanted Steve to be safe but I didn't want to open up my flat to anyone I was shouted down, told I was a bigot and told I was hurting Steve.

Steve rang my employer and told them I was bullying him and I nearly lost my job. Even some of my friends turned against me.

Next week the committee are meeting to decide if I have to remove my lock. I’m not invited to the meeting. The only people there are Steve and the committee. I’m told this doesn’t affect me so my view doesn’t need to be heard.

Today I heard Steve’s running the committee.

I don’t think I’ll be getting to keep my lock.

OP posts:
Maudlinmaud · 20/12/2017 11:42

I was confused at first, thought oh no! Is this another thread posted in the wrong place, much like the unexplained one last night. But about half way through I got it.
For someone like myself who doesn't care too much about this issue, it hit the mark.

SallyLockhartsDog · 20/12/2017 11:55

Well done op Xmas Smile thank you for going to the effort of getting this out there!

frogsoup · 20/12/2017 12:08

What a weasely deletion message. If mnhq deleted all the posts that were 'going nowhere positive' there'd be not much left on here! Yeah, nodebate, that always helps matters when discussing something controversial Hmm

IrkThePurist · 20/12/2017 12:25

This is the modern version of an Aesops Fable, The Woman and the Asp. Well done OP.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 20/12/2017 13:05

I've just reported my post on this thread to ask. No-one is being abusive or transphobic here.

MN are normally fairly sensible and pro women. I would be surprised if our concerns were not being heard.

I realise that there was all the stuff about Paris lees lady year but I had hoped they had moved a bit since Justine told everyone to f off then.

Datun · 20/12/2017 13:31

For someone like myself who doesn't care too much about this issue, it hit the mark.

That’s good to know Maudlinmaud.

Being able to choose your sex at will and being given rights on the back of it, is a huge issue. Mainly for women.

The transactivist #NoDebate has served to silence discussion in very many places. Mumsnet is one of the few places where oxygen is allowed to flourish through the pros and cons.

Thermostatpolice · 20/12/2017 13:34

Can we finish the story?

Your lock is removed. You move into a caravan at the end of the garden, venturing out as infrequently as possible. Steve's flatmates start using your flat too and Steve has nowhere quiet to get away from them.

Or:

The nice woman upstairs overhears Steve and committee Chair talking. She thinks 'Steve's a lovely guy but that's unfair' and writes to the local paper. The committee is bombarded with letters from people across town. Some of the letters mention a modern block of flats around the corner, which has no locks. People like you and Steve don't buy property there because they don't like the neighbours dropping in unannounced.

Under pressure, the committee outvotes Steve. You keep your lock. It says that Steve's flatmates must stop upsetting him or they will be evicted. Steve is given a key to the boxroom upstairs so that he can get away from his flatmates and have some peace whenever he wants it.

Over time, the flatmates get used to having Steve around and grow to respect him. Steve visits the box room less frequently. Eventually things are less awkward between you and Steve.

Elendon · 20/12/2017 13:37

If mnhq deleted all the posts that were 'going nowhere positive' there'd be not much left on here!

That's what I thought too frogsoup

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 20/12/2017 13:39

I like the ends of the story too Grin

xxnamechangexx · 20/12/2017 13:48

I like the second of Thermostats endings

OP posts:
Thermostatpolice · 20/12/2017 14:03

That's the one I'd prefer too xxnamechangexx. I enjoyed your allegory. Thank you Smile

I suspect that MN are walking a very shaky tightrope WRT trans discussions. They are probably under all sorts of fire behind the scenes. I can't feel too critical of the the odd deletion that seems inconsistent on the surface.

Elendon · 20/12/2017 14:10

I like the second of Thermostats ending as well.

Wouldn't that just be the perfect ending?

xxnamechangexx · 20/12/2017 14:12

I won't be kicking up a fuss about the deletion. I'm grateful they let the debate exist too as so many places shut it down and I agree, I bet they are getting a fair amount of stick for doing so that we just don't see.

OP posts:
LateDad · 20/12/2017 14:12

The bit I find lacking is ...

The committee agreed with him.

... I think it should be:

The committee agreed with him, because they didn't really care and were far more interested in flogging off bits of the flats to their mates for cash under the table.

.... and this bit:

Today I heard Steve’s running the committee.

Which I think should be:

Today I heard Steve’s running the committee. Well, sort of. The actual committee really don't give a shit about me, or Steve for that matter, and have found a new market opportunity selling more booze and drugs to the men across the hall.

xxnamechangexx · 20/12/2017 14:48

Ha - yeah that's a good tweak and very true

OP posts:
Terrylene · 20/12/2017 15:40

I think the caravan ending is probably apt.

On The Westminster Hour (sadly the episode is no longer on I-player) they said that after self-id became the thing in LA (?) that the Men's hostel and the Women's hostel changed. The mens stayed the same, but the Women's had a load of men hanging around outside it smoking and no women to be seen anywhere. The staff could not chuck them out. Unintended consequences.

WTAFisthisshit · 20/12/2017 18:05

I like Late Dad's tweaks, I think it's important that the people yelling SERF realise that the committee doesn't actually actually give a shit about Steve and think about who benefits from the committees decisions.

I am really hoping for Thermostatpolice second ending Smile

Well done OP, even if you made one person think (and I suspect it was more) it will have been worth it.

biscuitbasket · 20/12/2017 18:16

Thanks WTAF. Glad you thought the Bristol uni thing was interesting

GuardianLions · 20/12/2017 18:23

I think it is a great analogy and a shame is was pulled from AIBU.

I think it really highlights the utter pisstake of believing one is entitled to women's space after having been offered it in special circumstances as an act of kindness and goodwill.

Maryz · 20/12/2017 20:01

Was the other thread deliberately derailed? It seemed ok last time I saw it.

xxnamechangexx · 20/12/2017 20:42

It carried on as it was Maryz - I think they just got a lot of reports

The Bristol Uni thing is just Shock

OP posts:
LastGirlOnTheLeft · 20/12/2017 21:05

I thought this was great!! It really demonstrates just how sick the whole situation is.

thebewilderness · 20/12/2017 23:40

xxnamechangexx
May I have your permission to post your story elsewhere and would you like author credit or anon?

thebewilderness · 20/12/2017 23:44

I would like it very much if you submitted it to McSweeney: www.mcsweeneys.net/pages/submission-guidelines

xxnamechangexx · 21/12/2017 08:15

Hi thebewliderness - feel free to post it or submit it as you like - anon is fine :)

OP posts: