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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Man in Brighton exposes himself to children while wearing womens clothes claims athletes foot made him do it

229 replies

miri1985 · 15/12/2017 01:37

www.theargus.co.uk/news/15768693.Salesman_in_sports_bra_exposed_himself_in_children___s_play_area/

Don't worry this kind of thing never happens!

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 15/12/2017 10:34

Yes Debbie, but generally men don't access female spaces. It is recognised that intimate spaces such as toilets and changing rooms are sex segregated. Wards in hospitals are supposed to be sex segregated. Many spaces are sex segregated. Your answer is disingenuous.

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2017 10:35

There are exemptions in the EA which even cover people with a GRC.

Sensimilla · 15/12/2017 10:37

There is no law protecting single sex spaces

The Equalities Act 2010 does debbie

Debbie6666 · 15/12/2017 10:50

Sensimilla

Ok I'll qualify there are not criminal laws protecting single sex spaces and the Equality act already works on self ID for trans people

SandSnakeofDorne · 15/12/2017 10:56

Ignoring the whole trans thing, can we be outraged that his unconvincing athlete’s foot story meant the judge decided he couldn’t be sure beyond reasonable doubt that he was masturbating. Even though this was the second time he’d needed to get his penis out for a scratch next to a playgroup. And he claimed he hadn’t noticed the 15 toddlers. FFS.

Debbie6666 · 15/12/2017 10:56

To add to that.

The EQ act does not require a Statutory declaration even and it grants access to single sex spaces in the vast majority of cases. there are exceptions if they are proportionate to achieving a legitimate aim and even so there still must be provision for those discriminated against under that clause by alternate means of delivery.

Likewise the provisions under the EQ act do not grant licence for criminal behaviour the same as the GRA doesn't or will GRA self ID

Debbie6666 · 15/12/2017 10:57

Ignoring the whole trans thing, can we be outraged that his unconvincing athlete’s foot story meant the judge decided he couldn’t be sure beyond reasonable doubt that he was masturbating. Even though this was the second time he’d needed to get his penis out for a scratch next to a playgroup. And he claimed he hadn’t noticed the 15 toddlers. FFS.

YES precisely this.

FreiasBathtub · 15/12/2017 10:58

Debbie6666 can you say a bit more about prosecution for fraud? I wasn't aware that this was possible under the GRA proposals. Surely the whole point is that we shouldn't be picking apart a person's claim to identify as a particular gender, because their self-declaration is all it takes. If they say they are a man/woman, legally they are a man/woman.

Will fraudulently impersonating a different gender now become a criminal act? How will it be tested/proven - what evidence will be used? How is this different from the current panel system? I haven't seen any discussion of this anywhere.

titchy · 15/12/2017 11:06

Debbie the EO DOES protect single sex spaces. The EO does NOT allow for self identification.

HTH

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2017 11:06

Disclosing someone's former sex is illegal under the Data Protection Act if they have a GRC. It is a criminal offence in many cases.

Thermostatpolice · 15/12/2017 11:06

At this point, all I'm interested in is seeing research that will allay my fears. With all we know about male patterns of criminality, why wouldn't predatory men self identify as female in order to abuse and intimidate women? In hostels. On hospital wards. In prisons (as has already happened in the UK).

I'm not interested in opinions. I want to see studies, risk assessments and research. There are plenty to support my fears. If I've got this wrong, show me why.

titchy · 15/12/2017 11:08

Clearly no act provides a licence for criminal activity. It does however provide opportunity, lots and lots of it.

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2017 11:10

Debbie the EO DOES protect single sex spaces. The EO does NOT allow for self identification.

Titchy, the problem is that in the EA, the protected characteristic "gender reassignment" is laid out in a vague way which has been exploited by transactivists. It was never intended to allow cross dressing fetishists into women's spaces. But it does.

SandSnakeofDorne · 15/12/2017 11:10

I can’t believe you’re all so busy worrying about the trans threat for this person who hasn’t claimed to be trans that you’re ignoring the actual threat to children apparent in how the criminal justice system has handled this case. He doesn’t need access to single sex spaces. He enjoys wanking in public in front of children and nothing has been done to stop him.

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2017 11:13

It doesn't matter whether or not he claims to be trans. Stonewall and other trans advocacy organisations believe that he is. It is considered transphobic to say that some people falling under the broad trans umbrella are predatory men looking to access female spaces more easily.

Sensimilla · 15/12/2017 11:16

Equality act already works on self ID for trans people

No, it doesnt. That is a misinterpretation, which has become amplified. 'Fake news' if you like

Debbie6666 · 15/12/2017 11:22

FreiasBathtub

IANAL but making a false declaration could be fraud depending on how you gained from the false declaration and can carry severe penalties, it could be perjury too i would expect but its going to be dependant on the circumstances. Bearing in mind that if there is no gain from the false declaration then how is it relevant to a situation.

However as it is not a get out of jail free card it would be daft to try and use a statutory declaration of "i'm a woman" to try and get out of criminal proceeding on the basis "i'm a woman so i can masturbate in the park" As has been shown a fungal infection is far more effective.

Thermostatpolice · 15/12/2017 11:24

Sandsnake that case is appalling and I'm afraid it didn't surprise me to read that the perp got a rap on the knuckles and say no more about it.

That the system fails to protect children in such clear cut cases fills me with no confidence that they will get it right in more complicated ones.

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2017 11:25

No, it doesnt. That is a misinterpretation, which has become amplified.

Could you elaborate? It's my understanding that to all intents and purposes any person claiming the protected characteristic of "gender reassignment" even for a short time is covered by the law and it is illegal to discriminate against them.

FreiasBathtub · 15/12/2017 11:29

Debbie666 thanks that's interesting. So thinking beyond this case (and agree, clearly not needed as a get out of jail free card here) what if a recently-self-declared woman took a place on a very prestigious, high-profile leadership programme for women, for example.

Would that be enough gain for the claim to womanhood to be investigated for fraud?

Because that would be very interesting.

Debbie6666 · 15/12/2017 11:38

No, it doesnt. That is a misinterpretation, which has become amplified. 'Fake news' if you like

Government issued guidelines are now "Fake News" FFS There is no ID card, no doctor's letter, no statutory declaration needed to be protected under the EQ act under the "gender reassignment" protected characteristic. Ergo self ID

In fact the EQ act goes as far as its not even necessary for the individual to actually be trans for discrimination protections to be applied. Under the By Association clause its just enough for someone to think someone is or are associated with being trans.

That is again not the same as saying that a man can walk into a woman's space and claim to be trans and be immune to scrutiny and prosecution if appropriate.

PositivelyPERF · 15/12/2017 11:39

I get seriously pissed off when posters say that these men can be dealt with by the law if they commit a crime in a female space, as if it's no big deal. There will be a REAL victim in those cases. The victim will be the one that suffers and if they decide to report the crime, they will also have to deal with being called transphobic if they say they've been attacked by a man in a dress. But that's all so unimportant so long as the tims have the right to have their 'identity' recognised.

Funny how they're never a real Trans as soon as they break the law, isn't it. 😒

PrincePooPoo · 15/12/2017 11:46

I got to be a woman with no gatekeeping. As did you Thermo.

I got to be a woman because I met the definition of one. The definition has now changed to not include me as I don't "feel" like one. Sadly I was never given a choice and frankly being a woman is a bit shit but I don't think calling myself a man at this point will undo the breasts and the children that came out of my broken vagina. I'd have certainly picked a gender with some power if it were an option when I was 20. In the meantime I can just accept the few safe spaces that have been allocated to me and to my daughter.

Thermostatpolice · 15/12/2017 11:46

Debbie I don't understand. Why are people pushing for the GRA if self ID is already the case?

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