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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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A letter to the TERFs

653 replies

Helen1111 · 13/12/2017 18:36

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To the women shrieking transphobic abuse on Mumsnet, in the name of women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, when the world you wish for has come to pass, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and the trans woman by the bed next to you, who was with her wife every step of the way is consistently humiliated, dehumanised and denied her true value as a mother, because the best people can manage is to call her a facsimile of a woman, a pseudo-father, and she wishes that just for once, at this most transformative of moments, they would call her a woman, a mother, because that's what she is. But they can’t or they won’t, because they think that denying her the right to be a mother somehow gives them more rights or keeps them safe.

Remember me when your trans neighbour, who is waiting to have children before he starts hormone therapy, gives birth, and feels vulnerable and exposed, because the one person who would truly have been able to understand how he feels (and the best midwife on the ward) has been drummed out by transphobic haters who call her "a man in a dress.". Remember me when the doctors refuse to let your trans cousin see a female doctor, because they won’t record her sex as ‘female.’ Remember me when they laugh at her genitalia, when strangers ask to see what’s under her dress, when they force her to show them, even though her body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who is still reeling from you declaring her “lost to dementia” despite being every bit a feeling, thinking human being, goes into a care home and, despite having lived as a woman all her adult life, is called Sam, and cared for with the men. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that she is Susan, and you know she is your mother, but you cannot object, and can only sit by while her confusion is compounded with depression, anxiety and grief.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because transphobic mothers won’t allow her to run in the girls' race, but she can't go into the boys' changing rooms for fear of being beaten, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, she will never be allowed to compete, or even if she does, people would never accept her victories.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's no one else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because the law says he is a woman, because he wasn’t born with a penis.

Remember me when your niece goes for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. She’s put in the hours, she’s worked so hard, she knows she deserves it. And the position goes to Lola, who has spent the last year subjecting her to transphobic bullying her at every opportunity, and making her life so miserable that she’s considered suicide more than once. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have surgery, or to recover from the latest transphobic beating she received when walking home, (though either of them could get breast cancer because it doesn’t just affect people who were born female).

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for trans men and women being raped, murdered, beaten and driven to suicide are on the increase, and that, not only did you do anything to challenge or prevent this, but you spurred it on, in the name of women’s rights. Remember me too, when vulnerable trans women, who look for all the world like you and me, are locked up in male prisons and cannot escape, even though they are imprisoned with the very people who abused them and drove them to the edge.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas, and he tells you that this was the first time he ever felt like there was a truly place for him in the world. But then his teacher told him it is wrong and immoral to be like this. And you realise that all this time, when you preached transphobia, you were teaching others that your son was wrong, was a misogynist in women’s clothing. And you realise that your son, your wonderful, unique, son, will only be happy when you accept him as your daughter. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that your son is depressed, that he is being bullied by people who were once his friends, but she doesn't want to have to involve their parents in this, because it’s really just a lifestyle choice and people should be free to tell him what they think of him, after all it’s really just protecting the rights of the girls in the class. But you are afraid – of yourself, your son, your friends, and you don’t know what to do.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transphobic friends, the ones who called trans women “six foot men with stubble in a dress” and yet still claimed these ‘men’ were “benefitting from the patriarchy.” Look around and maybe you will finally see that this has cost trans women everything, it has made the world a harder, crueller place for them, and yet they still did this. Despite the odds, the pain, the abuse, despite never being considered to be one thing or another, they still chose to live as women.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for all our rights. Fighting to tell you that you do not do this in my name. Fighting to undo the damage.

Watch your own backs, we’ve got ours.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 13/12/2017 20:08

Who thinks of genitals that much?

Rape victims?

therealposieparker · 13/12/2017 20:08

Teslas.

What is it about girls in china that means they get left in dying rooms?

ArcheryAnnie · 13/12/2017 20:09

As opposed to your feminism which dictates that your genitals are the only thing about you that matters?

Show me where I have ever said this, Tesla. I dare you.

Good to know you acknowledge that your little bingo card is misogynistic wank, tho.

WTAFisthisshit · 13/12/2017 20:10

tesla are you quite young and recently done psychology at uni where they confused intersex with trans?

PencilsInSpace · 13/12/2017 20:11

Fucking hell Tesla, if we're playing bingo I just won with your appropriation of intersex people's experience.

Those seeking to co-opt the struggles of intersex people to somehow legitimise the transactivist agenda need to back the fuck off. It's got so bad that Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome Support Group (AISSG) have had to issue a statement:

'Trans' Terms

Intersexuality is not the same as a transsexuality (gender dysphoria) and is not a transgender state. Neither of the latter terms is one that we recognise as belonging in any general discussion of intersex. We are not happy with the recent tendency of some trans groups/people to promote transgender as an umbrella term to encompass, for example, transsexuality, transvestitism and intersex. We object to other organisations/individuals putting us in categories without consulting us, especially categories that imply that interexed people, of necessity, have gender identity issues. See the paper by Mazur et al cited at foot of this page.

The problems this causes...

We are constantly trying to get away from the idea that intersex is necessarily to do with gender identity, a notion that others (including the press/media) like to impose on us. Moreover, the prefix trans- infers a "moving across", and although a few people with intersex conditions may choose to change their gender role, the vast majority never "go" anywhere in terms of their sex or their gender, but are happy to stay in the status in which they grew up.

XY females may suffer various problems on finding out their diagnosis. Problems such as:

- confusion
- anger at secrecy and paternalism (withholding of diagnostic information)
- shame and stigma
- an existential type of identity crisis
- low self-esteem
- difficulty grasping how this biological phenomenon can come about
- grief at being denied fertility and rites of passage (e.g. lack of menstruation)
- a feeling of freakishness and isolation compared to their peers
- a fear that others might see them as 'male'
- a concern regarding their ability to function in a relationship (e.g. vaginal hypoplasia)
- the burden of keeping a secret, or uncertainty over who to tell and how
- a retreat from medical care leading to failure to take HRT with a risk of osteoporosis
- etc., etc.

These are the issues that are of major concern to most of our members; and none of these necessarily means that their inner sense of gender identity is compromised.

This trend towards 'muscling in' on intersex issues seems to be a initiative on the part of certain politically-minded people in the 'trans' community, to bring intersex under their banner (for whatever reason - it lends more credibility to their cause?) or even to actively interfere in clinical issues relating to intersex. See Announcements for an account of the problems we had in 2000 with a gender dysphoria/transsexual organisation trying to interfere in protocols for 'gender reinforcement' surgery in intersexed infants with so-called genital ambiguity.

Here's the link to Announcements where you can read all about the shoddy behaviour of GIRES in 2000.

Anlaf · 13/12/2017 20:11

So, my mum, neighbour, niece, son, daughter, midwife and couple in the bed next to me etc. are all trans in a world where less than 1% of the population are trans? And how can my mum be a man?

This made me

Tesla I suggest you engage with the arguments being made instead of the arguments you imagine are being made.

stitchglitched · 13/12/2017 20:11

Ah, so the elderly mother is really the father then? So the term mother is also being hijacked by men who created children with their sperm? The OP is like opposite land, nothing makes sense because in your bid to validate anyone who says they are anything words and facts have been rendered meaningless.

PricklyBall · 13/12/2017 20:12

It's their gender-feelz, innit, posie. (Yes, I feel your rage. Yes, I tried to explain this to Tesla upthread, but she has her fingers in her ears going "la la la la la".)

Incidentally, one only reaches the absurdly over-inflated figure of one in a hundred people as intersex if one includes minor cosmetic abnormalities of the external genitalia in the definition of intersex. And people who genuinely are intersex have repeatedly asked transactivists not to appropriate their medical history for political ends.

Bluebellforest1 · 13/12/2017 20:12

whitehandledkitchenknife I’ll bring a couple of spare tenas next time we meet!

Terrylene · 13/12/2017 20:12

Chromosomal sex is a process, not an assignation.

Ambiguity reigns!

BeyondAssignation · 13/12/2017 20:14

(Transgenderism was literally not mentioned once in the psych modules of my medical science degree)

ludog · 13/12/2017 20:14

What a load of bollocks ( hairy, male bollocks just to be clear)!

CosmicCanary · 13/12/2017 20:15

If genitals dont matter why do some transwomen want to chop off their penis and have a surgical hole instead?

ArcheryAnnie · 13/12/2017 20:16

But cisgender women

Who on this thread identifies as cisgender? I'm certainly not, either by trans standards, or my own standards (which classifies "cis" as a pile of more misogynistic wank).

Who are you talking about, then, Tesla?

Imagine being so invested in whether someone has a vagina or a penis that it makes you angry about their existence.

I don't care about anyone's existence. I care if they threaten my existence, though.

Who thinks of genitals that much?

Women, when they have the wrong sort of genitals (ie: a vagina) and it disqualifies us from being treated like full human beings. That's who.

busyboysmum · 13/12/2017 20:17

"To the women shrieking transphobic abuse on Mumsnet"

Stopped reading there TBH. Can't stand misogyny.

That's the point of prisons you fuck-knuckleis the best thing about this thread.
I couldn't be added with the nonsense of the op and skipped straight to the excellent comments.

stitchglitched · 13/12/2017 20:18

FWIW the women I see labelled TERFs all support a third category for trans people, and would support trans specific safe spaces, services etc. But this is no longer good enough for the current trans ideology. Unless you are willing to state that transwomen are literally women you are a bigot.

BatShite · 13/12/2017 20:19

How does one request a move to classics?

Some of these replies are gold. As is the original post actually. I reported it asking for it to be moved to classics anyway, and specifically requesting it not to be deleted no matter what Grin

BeyondAssignation · 13/12/2017 20:19

Are the men (and the transwomen?) "shrieking abuse" going to get their own threads?

Or is it just the women you don't like talking?

Thermostatpolice · 13/12/2017 20:19

Tesla

Chromosomal sex is a process, not an assignation.

Do you disagree with the whole 'assigned female/male at birth' thing?

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 13/12/2017 20:20

Thank you for that statement pencils I'm going to attach it to my MP letter Wink

MakeMisogynyAHateCrime · 13/12/2017 20:21

I consider this a threat
“Watch your own backs, we’ve got ours.”

Which I also consider as “literal violence”.

IrkThePurist · 13/12/2017 20:21

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for trans men and women being raped, murdered, beaten and driven to suicide are on the increase, and that, not only did you do anything to challenge or prevent this, but you spurred it on, in the name of women’s rights.

Liar.

None of the things in that rant are happening. Its a fantasy. Any person with a GRC will be treated as their recognised sex in the future just as they are now.

A letter to the TERFs
A letter to the TERFs
Terrylene · 13/12/2017 20:22

Now, I have a new ear worm.

Only it is chromosomes (with processes) that are dancing Grin

ThreeForTwo · 13/12/2017 20:22

Being trans-exclusionary against trans women is basically saying that a vagina is the only important part of a woman.

This is such a misunderstanding. Reproductive parts like the vagina and chromosomes aren't the not the only important part of a woman, they're just the parts of a person that indicate whether the right word to use is 'woman' rather than 'man'.

It's not women who are being 'reduced' to their vaginas, it's the word 'woman' whose meaning is being (correctly, in my view) kept at showing which reproductive category a person belongs to.

Which reproductive category a person belongs to is very very far from being the most important thing about them. For most things in life it shouldn't matter at all (for some it does - pregnancy and prostate cancer for instance). But while it's not the most important thing about someone, using the correct word for it does matter.

I believe wanting the word 'woman' to be used for all sorts of other personality features and subjective feelings is a mistake. It essentially makes the word meaningless and makes it impossible for women to describe themselves properly. That is not the same thing as saying that the only important thing about women is their reproductive bits.

BarrackerBarmer · 13/12/2017 20:23

LOL mate, nah.

Thats not whats gonna happen. THIS is:

Ten, fifteen years from now, politicians, celebrities and social justice warriors will be trampling over each other to distance themselves from the insanity of the 2010s.

What the almost political and 'progressive' acceptance of "the paedophile exchange" was to the seventies, so will this be the false step, the near miss, of our generation.

A series of scandals ranging from a huge increase in sexual assaults against women and girls, to a reduced participation and representation of women in society, to mass child sterilisations and expensive lawsuits, will have made the entire concept of pretending that people can change sex as toxic as feminists warned it always was.

A generation of damaged children will be fruitlessly pontificated about in government enquiries by people like you searching for who to cast the blame upon.

A selection of politicians and surgeons will be sacked as scapegoats, gender based charities will fold spectacularly, People will talk about "lessons must be learned" and "never again".

People like you, OP, will loudly and defensively declare that you never bought into the whole lie in the first place.

The abandoned women who have detransitioned and realised what a lie was perpetuated at their expense? They will find their home amongst the feminists who are currently excommunicated from and deplatformed in society, who will help them make sense of what was done to them, and why.
The boys, the men, will be sadly be set adrift by their fellow men who egged them on this journey to fend for themselves. They'll be busy doing more important stuff.

Lesbians will split from LGBT in protest against their harassment and neglect from that community.

Celeb trans people will detransition and release their memoirs.

Teenagers will move on to the next thing. Gender Identity will be, like, sooooo last year and regressive, and tbh, Not Cool Really.

Sporting and medical bodies will re-write rules emphasising the physical differences between the biological sexes and the importance of recognising that to ensure fairness for women.

The graph from Tavistock showing the exponential increase in child referrals during the 2010s will show a sudden and marked drop off a cliff as parents begin to receive severe social disapproval for failing to accept their children as they actually are.

Biology will continue to divide the human species into two, distinct reproductive types, as it has for millennia. This nonsense will not even register as a blip in the history of the human race.

Women will carry on being feminists.