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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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A letter to the TERFs

653 replies

Helen1111 · 13/12/2017 18:36

__

To the women shrieking transphobic abuse on Mumsnet, in the name of women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, when the world you wish for has come to pass, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and the trans woman by the bed next to you, who was with her wife every step of the way is consistently humiliated, dehumanised and denied her true value as a mother, because the best people can manage is to call her a facsimile of a woman, a pseudo-father, and she wishes that just for once, at this most transformative of moments, they would call her a woman, a mother, because that's what she is. But they can’t or they won’t, because they think that denying her the right to be a mother somehow gives them more rights or keeps them safe.

Remember me when your trans neighbour, who is waiting to have children before he starts hormone therapy, gives birth, and feels vulnerable and exposed, because the one person who would truly have been able to understand how he feels (and the best midwife on the ward) has been drummed out by transphobic haters who call her "a man in a dress.". Remember me when the doctors refuse to let your trans cousin see a female doctor, because they won’t record her sex as ‘female.’ Remember me when they laugh at her genitalia, when strangers ask to see what’s under her dress, when they force her to show them, even though her body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who is still reeling from you declaring her “lost to dementia” despite being every bit a feeling, thinking human being, goes into a care home and, despite having lived as a woman all her adult life, is called Sam, and cared for with the men. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that she is Susan, and you know she is your mother, but you cannot object, and can only sit by while her confusion is compounded with depression, anxiety and grief.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because transphobic mothers won’t allow her to run in the girls' race, but she can't go into the boys' changing rooms for fear of being beaten, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, she will never be allowed to compete, or even if she does, people would never accept her victories.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's no one else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because the law says he is a woman, because he wasn’t born with a penis.

Remember me when your niece goes for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. She’s put in the hours, she’s worked so hard, she knows she deserves it. And the position goes to Lola, who has spent the last year subjecting her to transphobic bullying her at every opportunity, and making her life so miserable that she’s considered suicide more than once. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have surgery, or to recover from the latest transphobic beating she received when walking home, (though either of them could get breast cancer because it doesn’t just affect people who were born female).

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for trans men and women being raped, murdered, beaten and driven to suicide are on the increase, and that, not only did you do anything to challenge or prevent this, but you spurred it on, in the name of women’s rights. Remember me too, when vulnerable trans women, who look for all the world like you and me, are locked up in male prisons and cannot escape, even though they are imprisoned with the very people who abused them and drove them to the edge.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas, and he tells you that this was the first time he ever felt like there was a truly place for him in the world. But then his teacher told him it is wrong and immoral to be like this. And you realise that all this time, when you preached transphobia, you were teaching others that your son was wrong, was a misogynist in women’s clothing. And you realise that your son, your wonderful, unique, son, will only be happy when you accept him as your daughter. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that your son is depressed, that he is being bullied by people who were once his friends, but she doesn't want to have to involve their parents in this, because it’s really just a lifestyle choice and people should be free to tell him what they think of him, after all it’s really just protecting the rights of the girls in the class. But you are afraid – of yourself, your son, your friends, and you don’t know what to do.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transphobic friends, the ones who called trans women “six foot men with stubble in a dress” and yet still claimed these ‘men’ were “benefitting from the patriarchy.” Look around and maybe you will finally see that this has cost trans women everything, it has made the world a harder, crueller place for them, and yet they still did this. Despite the odds, the pain, the abuse, despite never being considered to be one thing or another, they still chose to live as women.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for all our rights. Fighting to tell you that you do not do this in my name. Fighting to undo the damage.

Watch your own backs, we’ve got ours.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
MissUnderwood · 14/12/2017 13:57

Fuck off, Lily

ArcheryAnnie · 14/12/2017 14:07

DN4 thank you, yes.

perfectlywretched · 14/12/2017 14:16

DN4 thank you for sharing your story and I am sorry for your bad experiences.
How would you suggest we respond to children, young people and adults who insist they are trapped in the wrong body? What would be the most compassionate way forward based on your experience?

MissUnderwood · 14/12/2017 14:31

My last post was directed at the OP.

DN4 - have you thought of going forward to the media with your story?

BatShite · 14/12/2017 14:45

DN4 - have you thought of going forward to the media with your story?

I would never dare. Detransitioners are made out to be non-existent and are subjected to the same threats that women are Sad Detransitioners, and people who actually have sex dysphoria...all treat like dirt and made out to be less than human, and deserving of threats and violence.

Flowers DN4

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 14/12/2017 14:52

AFAIK we don't have an issue in our society with making laws which stop a minority of people from doing bad things. We don't ONLY have laws which affect things a majority would do.

So to say we should enact laws to let men into women's spaces because it's only a tiny minority of people who would use those laws for nefarious reasons is weird. I wouldn't murder someone if it wasn't against the law, nor would most people, still a useful piece of legislation to have hanging about though no?

MrsLoobiloo · 14/12/2017 14:54

Beautifully written Helen, necessary wisdom and narrative amongst the ignorance and heartlessness of many.

AssassinatedBeauty · 14/12/2017 14:59

You must have been reading something different @MrsLoobiloo if you think that's beautifully written.

BeyondAssignation · 14/12/2017 15:02

Even if you agree with the sentiment, EL James is a more erudite writer!

WTAFisthisshit · 14/12/2017 15:03

Even if you agree with the sentiment, EL James is a more erudite writer!

GrinGrinGrinGrinGrin

carrotandcornsoup · 14/12/2017 15:04

How heartless of women to want to defend their spaces and boundaries in the face of male violence. How ignorant of us to want to feel safe.

blackdoggotmytongue · 14/12/2017 15:08

Thank you DN4. The fact that your voice is silenced by this wave is yet more proof of the damage being done.

MrGHardy · 14/12/2017 15:09

Wow, powerful DN4

Flowerpot1234 · 14/12/2017 15:11

Helen1111 Do you think it's possible for me to live as an electricity pylon?

ArcheryAnnie · 14/12/2017 15:11

MrsLoobiloo I presume that if you agree with this:

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's no one else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because the law says he is a woman, because he wasn’t born with a penis.

...then you are totally onboard with this statement, too:

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's no one else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because the law says he is a woman, even though he was born with a penis.

And if you are not onboard with that, why not?

Thehairthebod · 14/12/2017 15:11

Thehairthebod - I only experienced about a 1/3rd that and dear god, that's quite the description - you have a way with words

Thank you Smile My description is actually my own experience to the letter of giving birth to my first, which I feel like is probably nothing out of the ordinary, for a first birth particularly. I didn't really have a clue who was actually in the cubicles around me, let alone give a fuck about how they 'identified'.

nigelschristmasham · 14/12/2017 16:15

Huh?
Can we just have a thread that says 'live and let live, treat everyone with respect and understanding, none of you are more deserving than anyone else' instead of all this oh so clever posturing?

MentholBreeze · 14/12/2017 16:20

I didn't really have a clue who was actually in the cubicles around me, let alone give a fuck about how they 'identified'.

A feeling I know well.

'Oh, you shoved a suppository up my bum while I was numb from the nipples down? I didn't even notice!' (happened twice!)

cafeaulaitpourvous · 14/12/2017 16:39

@DN4GeekinDerby you have made me cry - I want to give you a big unmumsnetty hug ThanksThanksThanksThanks

whitehandledkitchenknife · 14/12/2017 16:43

@DN4GeekinDerby - your story is powerful and speaks to all that is wrong with TRA and everything that feminists are fighting for.
Flowers

RedToothBrush · 14/12/2017 16:48

Lets sum this up:

  • Male visitors are more important than female patients in a hospital
  • Midwives are more concerned about trans people than all the other reasons they are leaving the profession in large numbers.
  • Women should be concerned about trans rights in pregnancy over all these other issues about why there is a severe midwife shortage across the country which is putting their long and short term physical and mental health at unnecessary risk.
  • Doctors code of ethics will change and they will laugh at trans people en mass because of critical examination of the implications of the GRA on MN.
  • Existing rights to dignity that trans people already enjoy are under threat because of some critical thought on MN (which also has the audacity to point out that the GRA might not be all its cracked up to be for trans people themselves). Unlike rights for women which are totes protected.
  • Elderly patients dignity and special care needs are only relevant if the person is trans.
  • A risk assessment should not be down where a trans person is treating someone who is suffering from dementia and this might be problematic for the trans person's own safety.
  • Mothers are more evil than boys beating the shit out of a trans person. We should punish the mothers. Boys will be boys afterall.
  • Women commit rape in large numbers.
  • Women commit violent crime to complete strangers in large numbers.
  • Bullying of women in the work place is not common nor a reason why they might need positive discrimination.
  • Trans women can't find the HR department like women have to.
  • Women have not been given special roles and jobs because their physical being and the expectation they might have children (even if they say they can't / won't) and this is a central problem to the discrimination they face. Transwomen are exactly the same as women, so should benefit from positions designed for women despite never having the same expectation over childbearing.
  • Transwomen are women. Except when they are the victims of crime or suicide then they are different and are totally trans.
  • Recording rates of crime committed by trans people is discriminatory and an insult to their right to self-identify and are totally men / women.
  • The idea that we would be all be better off by studying the experience of trans women and trans men as being different to women and men is BAD, even if it might also offer answers to suicide or being victims of crime in the process.
  • Parents should never question a child's view of the world. Children know everything and are far more worldly than their 'bigoted' parents cos trans ideology is just for those down with the kids.
  • No child ever before has wailed 'you don't understand me or know who I am'.
  • The vast majority of parents do not have the welfare of their children at the heart of their family and are automatically abusive for raising concerns about the lack of quality scientific evidence - either short term or long term - for the treatment and outcomes of a gender dysphoria. There is only one possible care pathway.
  • The physical element of surgery and hormones in the trans ideology are utterly irrelevant and it is exactly the same fight there was against homophobia.
  • There are no historical instances of institutional failure to protect children in our society.
  • Parents should never challenge what they are told, and should just obey, in order to protect their child from harm - because some activists from an unquestioning political cult are where its at in 2017.
  • A 5'2" woman is never treated differently to 5'10" woman due to their physical presence and naturally a 6'2" transwoman would be different and not affected by this weird judging of people by physical appearance.
  • Women have never had to suck it up because of their physical appearance and sex. Only trans women, who have it so hard as a result of being the first to ever experience this.
  • Women have a choice about the abuse they are on the receiving end of or have a choice about physically being born a woman.
  • There is no real nasty undertone resenting women for physically being the very thing that trans women are not and can not ever be. Which of course is all women's fault.
  • Trans people have been damaged by it being pointed out that even though they don't believe in gravity, their feet still stick to the ground.
  • MN is the source of all known evil. Never allow your women near it.
  • Feminists all want to burn transwomen at the stake to prove a point because they hate them so much.
  • Feminists do not understand or care about the rights of others.
  • No one who is trans themselves, is related to someone trans, is friends with someone trans, was previously trans or has suffered their own crisis of identity would hold these views and be concerned about the GRA.
  • Think as we think. Or else watch your back.

Have I missed anything?

Every single one of these bullshit points can be pulled apart with such ease, its not even fun to do, especially because of what it exposes.

A total lack of understanding and vey much deliberate twisting of the reasons of why women are kicking up a fuss in the first fucking place.

I wouldn't mind but the butchering of the original post that inspired the OP is so bad, they might as well have put "I hate women for having the sheer nerve to have wombs, you evil nasty bitches. How very dare you think.".

The effect is the same.

Listen to what women are saying on MN. This isn't close to it. Nor does it try to be.

Which is the point, isn't it?

BeyondAssignation · 14/12/2017 16:56

🙌

KatherinaMinola · 14/12/2017 16:59

Very good, Red. I couldn't be arsed.

Datun · 14/12/2017 17:08

MotorwayMingebag

It is wrong though. At the moment you need a gender recognition certificate to be transferred to female estate. The government are committed to removing that criteria.

But here’s where it’s really wrong.

Firstly there is no reliable risk assessment, otherwise Ponting would not have been transferred, and then removed based on inappropriate sexual advances to female inmates.

Secondly, transgenderism is entirely subjective. There is no test. Relying on what someone says as the basis for determining which prison they go to is ludicrous.

Thirdly, a man should not have to present a threat to be excluded from a woman only prison.

And about the statistics. Dr Williams published her report with every last bit of it verifiable.

Predictably, transactivists tried to discredit it.

Coincidentally, the Ministry of Justice produced their own report a few days later.

Dr Williams had actually underestimated her figures. She had done this deliberately, in order not to be accused of bias.

But I’m sure you know that. And now, I know exactly where you are coming from.

Statistics, evidence, studies.

Feminists are analysts. Not bigots.

Thelilywhite · 14/12/2017 17:13

DN4Flowers Very moving

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