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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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A letter to the TERFs

653 replies

Helen1111 · 13/12/2017 18:36

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To the women shrieking transphobic abuse on Mumsnet, in the name of women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, when the world you wish for has come to pass, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and the trans woman by the bed next to you, who was with her wife every step of the way is consistently humiliated, dehumanised and denied her true value as a mother, because the best people can manage is to call her a facsimile of a woman, a pseudo-father, and she wishes that just for once, at this most transformative of moments, they would call her a woman, a mother, because that's what she is. But they can’t or they won’t, because they think that denying her the right to be a mother somehow gives them more rights or keeps them safe.

Remember me when your trans neighbour, who is waiting to have children before he starts hormone therapy, gives birth, and feels vulnerable and exposed, because the one person who would truly have been able to understand how he feels (and the best midwife on the ward) has been drummed out by transphobic haters who call her "a man in a dress.". Remember me when the doctors refuse to let your trans cousin see a female doctor, because they won’t record her sex as ‘female.’ Remember me when they laugh at her genitalia, when strangers ask to see what’s under her dress, when they force her to show them, even though her body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who is still reeling from you declaring her “lost to dementia” despite being every bit a feeling, thinking human being, goes into a care home and, despite having lived as a woman all her adult life, is called Sam, and cared for with the men. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that she is Susan, and you know she is your mother, but you cannot object, and can only sit by while her confusion is compounded with depression, anxiety and grief.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because transphobic mothers won’t allow her to run in the girls' race, but she can't go into the boys' changing rooms for fear of being beaten, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, she will never be allowed to compete, or even if she does, people would never accept her victories.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's no one else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because the law says he is a woman, because he wasn’t born with a penis.

Remember me when your niece goes for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. She’s put in the hours, she’s worked so hard, she knows she deserves it. And the position goes to Lola, who has spent the last year subjecting her to transphobic bullying her at every opportunity, and making her life so miserable that she’s considered suicide more than once. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have surgery, or to recover from the latest transphobic beating she received when walking home, (though either of them could get breast cancer because it doesn’t just affect people who were born female).

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for trans men and women being raped, murdered, beaten and driven to suicide are on the increase, and that, not only did you do anything to challenge or prevent this, but you spurred it on, in the name of women’s rights. Remember me too, when vulnerable trans women, who look for all the world like you and me, are locked up in male prisons and cannot escape, even though they are imprisoned with the very people who abused them and drove them to the edge.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas, and he tells you that this was the first time he ever felt like there was a truly place for him in the world. But then his teacher told him it is wrong and immoral to be like this. And you realise that all this time, when you preached transphobia, you were teaching others that your son was wrong, was a misogynist in women’s clothing. And you realise that your son, your wonderful, unique, son, will only be happy when you accept him as your daughter. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that your son is depressed, that he is being bullied by people who were once his friends, but she doesn't want to have to involve their parents in this, because it’s really just a lifestyle choice and people should be free to tell him what they think of him, after all it’s really just protecting the rights of the girls in the class. But you are afraid – of yourself, your son, your friends, and you don’t know what to do.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transphobic friends, the ones who called trans women “six foot men with stubble in a dress” and yet still claimed these ‘men’ were “benefitting from the patriarchy.” Look around and maybe you will finally see that this has cost trans women everything, it has made the world a harder, crueller place for them, and yet they still did this. Despite the odds, the pain, the abuse, despite never being considered to be one thing or another, they still chose to live as women.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for all our rights. Fighting to tell you that you do not do this in my name. Fighting to undo the damage.

Watch your own backs, we’ve got ours.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ringle · 13/12/2017 22:34

Yes but two wrongs don't make a right do they?

Thermostatpolice · 13/12/2017 22:35

*I think that the mockery and anger may feel justifiable within an established group.

But lots of us are new to this, and the trading of insults comes across really badly. It's offputting.*

I get that Ringle. I really do. I was new to this once and know how it appeared then. Which is why I try very hard not to come across as mocking now. My analysis was offered as more of an explanation I guess.

ringle · 13/12/2017 22:37

Thank you.

blackdoggotmytongue · 13/12/2017 22:38

Women being held to a higher standard than men in ‘niceness’ is boringly normal, ringle. It’s weird that you believe comparing a few bitchy remarks to death threats is not only acceptable, but deserving of censure for the women. Will you popping over to the TRA sites and lecturing them about the ACTUAL threats of rape and violence?

LloydSpinjago · 13/12/2017 22:38

You have no idea about what it’s like to be a woman existing in the patriarchy

Neither do any of you to be fair....

CoteDAzur · 13/12/2017 22:38

Out of order? Hmm

How is it out of order to say that transwomen are not women?

Please don't make me quote dictionary definitions again.

PricklyBall · 13/12/2017 22:39

"Two wrongs don't make a right." But again with the false equivalence. Taking the piss out of someone for uttering complete bullshit is not in any way equivalent to "die terf scum", "that's the only thing terfs deserve. being doxxed and killed", "Terfs can choke on my girldick."

Suggesting that they are equivalent makes you sound like the sort of MRA who challenges every discussion about male sexual violence against women with the comment "women do it too."

blackdoggotmytongue · 13/12/2017 22:42

A transwoman doesn’t give birth. I transwoman doesn’t have a uterus.

A trans man can give birth. They stop taking hormones for the duration of pregnancy and most in this situation have not had ‘bottom surgery’ and are usually able to birth vaginally. I am fascinated about the facial hair though - always have been. Because the hormones stop, the beard doesn’t grow further, but it doesn’t fall out either (hence the ‘pregnant bearded man’ thing.) I’m fascinated that facial hair just stops growing and sits there. Wild.

Changebagsandgladrags · 13/12/2017 22:45

Ah but they want to give birth. How long before women get to hospitals to be told "sorry it's VBAC for you because transwomen have used up the quota this month"

ringle · 13/12/2017 22:45

I think that to call a person, a real person, a "facsimile" is nasty. that's what I think.

I would love to develop more general opinions about this stuff but you can't learn anything from folk who are trading insults.

Thermostatpolice · 13/12/2017 22:47

Ringle please check out the other threads on FWR. This is an unusual one in many respects.

BeyondAssignation · 13/12/2017 22:49

Facsimile just means copy though, doesn't it? An imitation? I mean the "poor" bit could be construed as nasty, but the facsimile bit is accurate? Isn't it?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 13/12/2017 22:51

What prickly said to perfectly

OP? That must have been linguistically difficult to write, it was certainly difficult to read...but I managed

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 13/12/2017 22:56

Darn it

Just seen hebemumsnet post...so OP isnt coming back

Forget i said anything...you probably have anyway Grin

ringle · 13/12/2017 22:56

Thanks Thermo,

The trans phenomenon has touched me in only two ways. Firstly I have a person I've grown quite close to who "transitioned" 10 years ago and I am, frankly, curious about what would drive a person to go through everything she has gone through, including having to reforge relationships with your own children. She has a high profile job and has consequently received many invitations to get more involved in trans activism, invitations she has not taken up.

Secondly I know that there is at least talk of young children being taken very literally and being given medication to prevent puberty, and that troubles me.

I want to learn about these things. The shower of acronyms is falling wide of the mark though because it teaches me nothing.

ringle · 13/12/2017 22:58

Yes, the "poor" bit is nasty.

Calling a person a poor facsimile is nasty. It always has been and it always will be.

ringle · 13/12/2017 23:00

Thermo any useful links would be appreciated. Cheers.

Badgerthebodger · 13/12/2017 23:05

@Ringle what acronyms would you like help with? I struggled at first as well, some are not obvious! Might be an idea to have a new thread with a bit of info about what exactly we are fighting against, similar to what a woman’s place uk has on Twitter

hipsterfun · 13/12/2017 23:10

check out the other threads on FWR. This is an unusual one in many respects.

Intelligent and entertaining in equal measure - it’s the Feminism chat Christmas do Wine

thebewilderness · 13/12/2017 23:10

Google is your friend, ringle.

Thermostatpolice · 13/12/2017 23:11

Ringle maybe just dig around on the main board and go back through to see which thread titles interest you. There's an excellent resources thread somewhere. I need to go to sleep now, but will locate it in the morning if nobody else does in the meantime.

I also suggest the Fair Play for Women website and Transgender Trend as good starting points. Yes, the taking children literally (affirmation) is extremely troubling. Stephanie Davies Arai is a great champion of children's protections in this respect.

BadgertheBodger an acronyms sticky would be really helpful!

ringle · 13/12/2017 23:11

I truly don't mean this disrespectfully but I don't really want to know any acronyms. They aren't part of how I learn.

I appreciate that for other people they are useful to defend against positions that they don't accept, they just don't teach me anything. There is no information that I can take from them other than "A will not listen to B"

Agerbilatemycardigan · 13/12/2017 23:12

Fucking hell! ! More biscuits than McVities on here today!! 😅

TammySwansonTwo · 13/12/2017 23:12

Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have surgery

Huh. I must have imagined the six surgeries I've needed for endometriosis, a condition that affects 1 in 10 women... although I guess if you include trans women in that figure it's not 1 in 10 any more is it? Hooray! Rates of endometriosis are falling Hmm

ringle · 13/12/2017 23:13

"Intelligent and entertaining in equal measure - it’s the Feminism chat Christmas do wine"

I hope it has a beginner's section.

I have read The Second Sex. Twice. Does that count?