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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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A letter to the TERFs

653 replies

Helen1111 · 13/12/2017 18:36

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To the women shrieking transphobic abuse on Mumsnet, in the name of women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, when the world you wish for has come to pass, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and the trans woman by the bed next to you, who was with her wife every step of the way is consistently humiliated, dehumanised and denied her true value as a mother, because the best people can manage is to call her a facsimile of a woman, a pseudo-father, and she wishes that just for once, at this most transformative of moments, they would call her a woman, a mother, because that's what she is. But they can’t or they won’t, because they think that denying her the right to be a mother somehow gives them more rights or keeps them safe.

Remember me when your trans neighbour, who is waiting to have children before he starts hormone therapy, gives birth, and feels vulnerable and exposed, because the one person who would truly have been able to understand how he feels (and the best midwife on the ward) has been drummed out by transphobic haters who call her "a man in a dress.". Remember me when the doctors refuse to let your trans cousin see a female doctor, because they won’t record her sex as ‘female.’ Remember me when they laugh at her genitalia, when strangers ask to see what’s under her dress, when they force her to show them, even though her body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who is still reeling from you declaring her “lost to dementia” despite being every bit a feeling, thinking human being, goes into a care home and, despite having lived as a woman all her adult life, is called Sam, and cared for with the men. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that she is Susan, and you know she is your mother, but you cannot object, and can only sit by while her confusion is compounded with depression, anxiety and grief.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because transphobic mothers won’t allow her to run in the girls' race, but she can't go into the boys' changing rooms for fear of being beaten, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, she will never be allowed to compete, or even if she does, people would never accept her victories.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's no one else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because the law says he is a woman, because he wasn’t born with a penis.

Remember me when your niece goes for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. She’s put in the hours, she’s worked so hard, she knows she deserves it. And the position goes to Lola, who has spent the last year subjecting her to transphobic bullying her at every opportunity, and making her life so miserable that she’s considered suicide more than once. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have surgery, or to recover from the latest transphobic beating she received when walking home, (though either of them could get breast cancer because it doesn’t just affect people who were born female).

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for trans men and women being raped, murdered, beaten and driven to suicide are on the increase, and that, not only did you do anything to challenge or prevent this, but you spurred it on, in the name of women’s rights. Remember me too, when vulnerable trans women, who look for all the world like you and me, are locked up in male prisons and cannot escape, even though they are imprisoned with the very people who abused them and drove them to the edge.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas, and he tells you that this was the first time he ever felt like there was a truly place for him in the world. But then his teacher told him it is wrong and immoral to be like this. And you realise that all this time, when you preached transphobia, you were teaching others that your son was wrong, was a misogynist in women’s clothing. And you realise that your son, your wonderful, unique, son, will only be happy when you accept him as your daughter. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that your son is depressed, that he is being bullied by people who were once his friends, but she doesn't want to have to involve their parents in this, because it’s really just a lifestyle choice and people should be free to tell him what they think of him, after all it’s really just protecting the rights of the girls in the class. But you are afraid – of yourself, your son, your friends, and you don’t know what to do.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transphobic friends, the ones who called trans women “six foot men with stubble in a dress” and yet still claimed these ‘men’ were “benefitting from the patriarchy.” Look around and maybe you will finally see that this has cost trans women everything, it has made the world a harder, crueller place for them, and yet they still did this. Despite the odds, the pain, the abuse, despite never being considered to be one thing or another, they still chose to live as women.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for all our rights. Fighting to tell you that you do not do this in my name. Fighting to undo the damage.

Watch your own backs, we’ve got ours.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Thermostatpolice · 13/12/2017 21:59

wretched
It's true that we don't need mockery. Our concerns over self ID are objectively, provably well founded. As is the fact that sex is binary and relevant to women's lives. We have peer-reviewed research, statistics, history, science, criminology coming out of our ears to back up this up. Transgender theory comes nowhere close to posing a challenge.

The frustration that -on MN- might lead to mild, infrequent mockery of the wackier end of the transactivist spectrum (never ever of transsexual people) is understandable. Evidence, research, science dismissed in favour of feelings. The insulting notion that humans can actually change reproductive category. Men like Danielle Muscato who appropriate women's shelters.

WRT hate, it can never be said frequently enough that if you point it out, MN will delete it.

Also, testosterone will eventually sterilise your 18 year old friend forever. A tattoo won't. A tattoo can be disguised or removed. Sterility can't be reversed AFAIK.

Please give yourself permission to think critically about this.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 13/12/2017 22:02

BeyondAssignation

Ha ha, not for mine, I had to talk her through changing a fuse quite recently. She does have that career though, that must be it. Not a housewife so can't be a woman.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 13/12/2017 22:03

Saying that a woman is an adult human female born with XX chromsomes & a vulva, who can have any personality, any appearance, any tastes, skills or interests: fine.

Saying that a woman is an adult human with no specific biology but who matches certain social or cultural stereotypes: old-fashioned misogyny in a new guise.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 13/12/2017 22:04

Lurking Daily Mail journos. Where art thou?

Print this OP's fuckwittery, Helen from Mermaids will love it

untoldstories · 13/12/2017 22:06

I have never seen any woman or any feminist wish harm on any transperson for being trans.
I have seen plenty of vile words and hate come the other way though.

Come on OP, come back and tell us how wrong we all are again.

ringle · 13/12/2017 22:10

ringle I didn't mean terf as an insult, I was just referring to the original OP.
Add message | Report | Message poster genever Wed 13-Dec-17 21:10:03

Ah thanks.

SophoclesTheFox · 13/12/2017 22:11

blatant placemarking to see if OP will come back and defend this woeful misbegotten bilge Grin

Bet it took him/her all day to write.

I don't think the effort's paid off.

Anlaf · 13/12/2017 22:12

Please give yourself permission to think critically about this.

YES!

BelligerentGardenPixies · 13/12/2017 22:14

Oh Helen is a plopper and a Christmas plopper no less because that was like the literary equivalent of the Boxing Day turd that refuses to flush.

Shitetastic.

ringle · 13/12/2017 22:17

I think that the mockery and anger may feel justifiable within an established group.

But lots of us are new to this, and the trading of insults comes across really badly. It's offputting.

I am mainly interested because the idea of children being allowed to suppress puberty greatly concerns me.

Guess I need my own thread!

YouCantBeSirius · 13/12/2017 22:18

The replies to this thread are why I love mumsnet.

OtterInDisgrace · 13/12/2017 22:18

First ever Biscuit

HebeMumsnet · 13/12/2017 22:18

Evening, everyone. Thanks for all the reports on this thread. To be honest, we've had as many demanding it goes as demanding it stays so we've been having a hard look at it all to see what the best thing to do is.

We can see why it has raised a few concerns, but, having looked carefully, we don't think the original post was necessarily meant to sound threatening and we wouldn't call this a TAAT per se. More a thread inspired by a thread.

What is unfortunate is that the OP appears to have deregged so isn't really about to continue this discussion usefully.

Given that, we're going to let the thread stand for now but would ask everyone to post thoughtfully and within talk guidelines. If the thread descends into a bunfight we will lock it to new posts.

Hope that sounds like a reasonable and fair solution.

Datun · 13/12/2017 22:19

Quite apart from the teenage angst and drama, doesn’t that opening post actually support feminists?

Literally none of those things would happen if gender was dismantled.

Battleax · 13/12/2017 22:20

Thanks @HebeMumsnet

FirstShinyRobe · 13/12/2017 22:20

perfectlywretched You have mentioned being a feminist - how does no longer being able to identify the harms done to women (and by whom) square with your feminism?

Not wanting to have a male body doesn't make one a woman. I am genuinely puzzled why, as a feminist, that statement doesn't resonate with you and I am curious as to why not. How do you rationalise women now meaning anyone who feels like one, rather than a biological reality?

dorade · 13/12/2017 22:21

Just like transwomen are poor facsimiles of actual women this post is a poor facsimile of the original.

ringle · 13/12/2017 22:24

Oh come now, drop the poor quality cross examination. If Perfectly wretched wishes to say more she can use her own language.

BatShite · 13/12/2017 22:24

I have been on a lot of trans threads on here and I have not seen anyone ever say they wish harm on transwomen. Ever. Thats even including AIBU posters who are usually a bit more..ferocious than elsewhere. And its not just 'genuime' transwomen. Even the ones we know are pisstakers, still don't get harm wished on them.

I have however, seen plenty of treats and wishing of harm on 'terfs'. Which seems to be pretty much accepted. I have yet to see anyone asking them to recite 50 lines like I used to be asked to do as a punishment at school. I guess that treatment is reserved for feminists huh? God forbid they be...not polite and nice...about the rights of females being removed.

blackdoggotmytongue · 13/12/2017 22:24

Oh no need to worry about the deregging. Helen’ll Be back in a few once she’s figured out an impenetrable new name change.

carrotandcornsoup · 13/12/2017 22:25

Really flattered you posted this Helen - imitation really is the sincerest form! It’s a bit silly, though, isn’t it?

BatShite · 13/12/2017 22:26

What is unfortunate is that the OP appears to have deregged

What a shame. We could do with more of the OPs insight. I am shocked beyond shocked that they didn't plan to engage. It is most unusual for people to shout 'nasty bigots' and flounce.

I would say a lock if needed is a good compromise. Too many great replies to lose Grin

ringle · 13/12/2017 22:27

"Just like transwomen are poor facsimiles of actual women this post is a poor facsimile of the original."

I think that's out of order. There's no need for that.

PricklyBall · 13/12/2017 22:33

Those who feel that there have been examples of online hate and bullying here might like to remind themselves of what the real deal looks like: The Terf is a Slur webpage (warning: extremely graphic threats of physical and sexual violence directed towards women).

TL:DR - offering someone a virtual biscuit doesn't even cause the needle to flicker on the online hate-ometer.

Changebagsandgladrags · 13/12/2017 22:34

Apologies for the slight divergence. How does a transwoman give birth? What happens with contractions and what not? Obvs they have a c-section. Well I assume they do. So these births are more expensive. Will more women be pushed into natural births to balance the books?

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