Lily Madigan - C4 news tonight

[WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe]

Just switched over to Channel 4 News and Lily Madigan is going to be on it.

[TiredOfThisAll]

Pharmacology article

Not watched the interview, but the comment about estrogen and the brain got me googling. This is where I wish I understood endocrinology, plus I have not read this yet. But it talks about estrogen and the brain - the abstract states:

"Most data derive from studies in females, but there is mounting recognition that estrogens play important roles in the male brain, where they can be generated from circulating testosterone by local aromatase enzymes or synthesized de novo by neurons and glia".

While I doubt that this resolves the issue of LM being a Woman's Officer, I do wonder if a genuine medical issue has got scrambled into lay speak to support the trans cause. The article is anyway not suggesting, I don't think, that testosterone converting to estrogen in the male brain makes you female, in fact, going by the abstract alone it suggests that the hormones work differently in the male and female bodies.

I will read it properly at some point, it may not be useful, but I think an understanding of endocrinology would be.

[TiredOfThisAll]

also pointing out that when the article I linked to talks about male and female brains, it means brains in male and female sexed bodies, not independent entities that exist apart from these bodies.

[DonkeySkin]

there are middle aged women fawning all over him on sodding twitter

A big factor in why the extremist trans movement has gotten so far is because most women's default response to trans-identified males is to feel sorry for them. Women automatically tend to see trans-identified males as extremely vulnerable and cannot imagine them posing any threat to women. Further, some get an obvious kick out of casting themselves as the heroic rescuers of this sub-group of men whom they see as needing women's love and protection.

I haven't seen this C4 news bit as I'm not in the UK, but if Liam/Lily really did come across as a scared child, this is only going to help the TRA agenda, not harm it. The whole narrative about why TIMs belong in women's spaces, programs and sports has been about how these men NEED it because they are so vulnerable and suffering so much. And it works. Clearly, most people do see the feelings of a single 'suffering' man as more important than the rights of the entire class of human females.

Having seen Liam/Lily in action on Twitter, taunting Labour women that he has access 'all that pretty contact data' and sending them creepy 'kisses', and knowing that he has been an MRA since high school, I'm skeptical that this performance was anything other than the manipulations of a misogynist and narcissist, who is playing up to the same narrative that has gotten him where he is in the first place.

[Terrylene]

You can convert testosterone derivatives to oestrogen via aromatase, but I am not very up to speed on the reasons why this would happen. If there was too much though, you would expect things like breast development and shortened stature to be going on too. I think it is probably conjecture as you cannot possible know what went on in the womb without extensive tests and studies on that person at the time.

I know of a young person with asd who was very keen on politics who very sadly ended up committing suicide, maybe because of the social media aspect. They probably would have done a good job at some level. They need to look after their young people though and they are not. Certainly not in this case. Goodness knows what the LP are thinking of (or not )

[ThatEscalatedQuickly]

I thought estrogen was produced primarily by the ovaries? Unless Lily is intersex, which has never been mentioned afaik, how exactly could she have this over abundance of estrogen?

[DamnItall]

@BelaLugosisShed, but was it an ex-nurse or an ex-Nurse or an internet nurse????

Now while I know that increased hormone activity can affect scanning I wasn’t aware that you could tell which one it was from a scan. I’ll admit it’s not something I’ve researched recently.

The more I read the more it comes across that Lily has issues (I’m a 80’s Girl), however I do think that Lily believes their own cheerers

[Regressionconfession]

For those watching on catch up, it's about 42 minutes in.

[Terrylene]

Ovaries are a primary source, but oestrogens are produced in other tissues and this is the main source post menopause.

Men produce oestrogens too, and they are processed by the liver, unless there is some failure, then they build up.....well known side effect of too much beer

[TiredOfThisAll]

Men producing estrogen seems to be related to age?

[CAAKE]

Here's the edited clip if anyone wants to see it -

www.channel4.com/news/lily-madigan-the-more-diverse-women-are-in-political-roles-the-better

[BahHumbygge]

You can watch the interview here on the Channel 4 website, without catch up

www.channel4.com/news/lily-madigan-the-more-diverse-women-are-in-political-roles-the-better

[SonicBoomBoom]

I gave in and watched it.

S/he's shite! It's not even like s/he's impressive, where you could understand the desperation to catapult them up the political ladder.

[ThatEscalatedQuickly]

I would have thought that male estrogen levels would be a low one (generally speaking I'm sure there's some variety within a narrow range) and not enough to cause the outcome Lily is claiming? I suppose I'm just wondering what exactly Lily is claiming is unique about her brain and the 'estrogen' that impacted it.

[CAAKE]

From what I can see (from my echo chamber) Lily is mostly being savaged on Twitter.

[CAAKE]

Cross post @BahHumbygge !

[TheXXFactor]

As I understand it, recent research has shown that mammalian brains can in fact produce small amounts of oestrogen. AFAIK, it is not yet understood when or why this happens - it is only in the last few years that we have even realised it is possible. So Lily's comments are still bollocks but - like so much TRA pseudoscience - the 98% bollocks is cut with about 2% truth.

[Terrylene]

I suppose I'm just wondering what exactly Lily is claiming is unique about her brain and the 'estrogen' that impacted it I'm no expert, but I think researchers have found a bit more out about oestrogen in the brain and have said 'oooh - "this" happens - maybe it causes x, y or z' and it is a long winding road for many years to take this any further, and any results may be a long way off and not what is expected, so to apply any of this theory to an individual is conjecture.

[WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe]

Fully agree BellaLugosisShed.

When my 19 year old nephew had both his legs blown off by an IED whilst serving in the army in Afghanistan there wasn't anyone shouting from the rooftops that he was too young to have made the decision to join the army.

Legally an adult and able to make adult decisions no matter how immature or unwise they might be at 19.

[Thermostatpolice]

Just watched it. What on earth is the Labour party playing at? This appointment is totally irresponsible.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

Thank you for the links I've just watched on my phone.

Baby pink sweater and delicate little movements and soft voice.. pathetic Little "girly" performance.
Not so meek and mild on Twitter either...

Your performance did not fool me

[christinarossetti]

It's awful. Lily has nothing to say about politics other than the 'identity politics' buzz words and phrases, and is clearly out of her depth.

It's absolutely delusional to claim that you 'grew up as a woman' because you put on a skirt when you were 14.

[DonkeySkin]

I suppose I'm just wondering what exactly Lily is claiming is unique about her brain and the 'estrogen' that impacted it.

He isn't really claiming anything coherent. Vague, pseudo-scientific claims are not supposed to make sense and this is not something he really believes or cares about. It's a tactic to confuse the discussion because neuroscience is incredibly complex, so you can spout any old bollocks about sexed brains and the argument will quickly get very convoluted and technical, and most people will switch off. (And as Tired pointed out, the very concept of male and female brains can only ever mean 'brains in male and female sexed bodies, not independent entities that exist apart from these bodies'.)

Trans activists use the pseudoscience bollocks tactic all the time, as a way of confusing people and appealing to their latent sexism, and above all to derail discussions on how harmful trans ideology is to women and children.

[LaContessaDiPlump]

I watched this with DH earlier and was spitting feathers at the screen. The words 'You are fucking deluded' may have been uttered. She (I'll be kind) came across as a weird mixture of arrogant and terrified, to me - clearly drunk a gallon of the trans kool-aid and can no longer see the man in the street's pov. I feel oddly sorry for her, in amongst the fury.

[RaininSummer]

Still wanting to throw bricks at the screen. Sooo pissed off with this whole charade.

[Terrylene]

Yep - pseudo smoke and mirrors and not a qualification for a job.