Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lily Madigan, TIM, elected Labour women's officer

999 replies

jMillicentFawcett · 20/11/2017 05:17

Lily is 19. Lily was instrumental in the hate campaign against Anne Ruzylo which resulted in her standing down.

You have to be a woman to be women’s officer but ‘The Labour councillor said that “lived experience as a woman” should be considered an advantage — but not a prerequisite — for the role of women’s officer.’

Lily could also have gone for the LGBT officer role but they didn’t want that. No, they wanted to show women that they can shit all over them and we will applaud them for doing it.

I’m absolutely furious about this ( as you can probably tell)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-teenager-lily-madigan-voted-in-as-a-labour-women-s-officer-mwchkhzq8?shareToken=472df23aa6315582a4f6558d7a1be5ba

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
RedToothBrush · 22/11/2017 23:54

Coming out would have weapon used any normal sibling rivalry and rocked the security of the other two kids. People under estimate how their identity is related to those closest to them and how it feeds off that relationship. If you have been socially conditioned to identify yourself as the middle child and second son and that for any reason changes, its about how you identify yourself and your status and role within the family. A younger sister suddenly having an older sister loses part of her own former identity.

You don't realise how often you are politely asked how many brothers and sisters you have. This question helps others relate to you. Being the eldest, the only girl, the second son, the middle child etc etc are important to us. I simple question becomes a minefield where you either choose to lie, or tell the truth and deal with the reaction: sometimes embarrassed, sometimes pitying, sometimes confused, sometimes not knowing what the fuck to say next and generally wishing they'd never asked what they thought to be a nice safe, polite question.

If you are conditioned by society to treat people differently on the basis of their gender then when someone that close to you decides to change that you are very much thrown into a void. You can not do it overnight. If you can't talk about it with the person concerned you suddenly find yourself unable to know how to react to that person. You will be told "but they are still your brother" except of course the entire point is that they are not. And the so social constructs of gender still remain. You know beyond any doubt what it is to be a girl and then someone comes along and says "no you are wrong and I am right" and they have power over you and your own definition of this is not deemed acceptable or valid. That's could be a real knock to your own confidence and self worth.

Outsiders don't get how putting such a grenade into a family affects all members of that family. Being a friend of someone who is trans is a different experience because your own identity and security isn't built around a friend in the same way that it is around siblings.

You have here a situation where the sibling hiring lawyers and suing the school seems very able to look after themselves whereas as the daughter is struggling and needing support from the school. How do you think the parents are going to react and cope? Can they support both kids equally, or do they see that one perhaps is in need of more support than the other. Of course this is then interpreted as 'favouritisn' or being unsupportive.

Add into the mix threats of suicide (we know Lily went on about suicide and being able to use toilets), accusations of transphobia and ego and political ambition and we have a nice little cocktail and pressure cooker. Oh and don't forget demonisation in the media for being bigoted whilst painting yourself as the victim of it all.

I note the total lack of empathy or even attempt to consider how other family members maybe need their 'own time to transition'. It's just expected at the drop of the hat. Anyone with any ounce of respect for their family wouldn't make a comment about how their family viewed it all, even if their were difficulties. Instead Lily gets a bus, run them over and reverses without a shred of loyalty or compassion. Don't forget Lily's siblings are not yet adults whereas Lily is supposed to be old enough and mature enough to take on a role representing others in a political party, which carries a degree of responsibility to others.

I can well image the situation at home. I'm sure it will be utterly, utterly toxic.

If there is one thing I grateful for, it's that I didn't have to deal with this shit when I was a teenager as it's been bad enough as an adult when I've had the freedom to escape and avoid the situation on my own terms and without the media and law involved.

OlennasWimple · 22/11/2017 23:58

Maybe, Pisa. Though FB ain't RL of course

From the HuffPost article following the uniform debacle: "Lily has now started a student group at school to give younger people someone to look up to"

It's all about Lily, isn't it... Hmm

Red - yy about siblings and other family members who have grown up with a loved one who is now supposed to have never existed. It's the ultimate teen "I hate you!" isn't it?

RedToothBrush · 23/11/2017 00:09

It's the narccist sibling with the ultimate defence.

Is the relationship abusive? Well if you are slagging off your younger sister who is still a minor in the press or on social media when you know you are getting and trying to expand your national attention, then yes that does count as abusive.

pisacake · 23/11/2017 00:32

"Coming out would have weapon used any normal sibling rivalry and rocked the security of the other two kids"

I think Lily is the oldest of 4. A brother 1 year younger and then 2 younger sisters. But some at different schools, grammar school system in Kent....

MillicentFawcett · 23/11/2017 00:48

Liam isn’t the eldest. He has an older sister

pisacake · 23/11/2017 01:26

oh you might be right, an older sister 2 younger sisters and a younger brother

RedToothBrush · 23/11/2017 07:55

And two very frazzled parents.

norahnamechange · 23/11/2017 08:19

RedToothBrush
Some great informative posts - thank you. I always enjoy reading your comments on another board Smile

I have been really alarmed at the negative way that the transgender organisations treat parents and families in their training materials, cheerfully painting them as 'wrong' or 'transphobic' for any failure to immediately and enthusiastically promote a child's new identity.
It's both cruel and unkind and of course, seeks to separate out the child from their family by painting the family as an 'unsafe' place. In fact it's bloody dangerous!

thecatfromjapan · 23/11/2017 08:32

This all very much demonstrates what happens when you legislate for trans rights against a background of still entrenched power inequalities that disempower women (and children).

Reading through your posts, RTB, it is so clear that this is going to actively silence women's ability to name and articulate their own experience/reality (and that's before we even hit the public sphere and the legislative articulating of experience, reality and rights).

What you've written is extremely insightful and I genuinely fear it may even become technically illegal to explore those feelings (partly because the path to articulating those insights for any individual will be a tricky, difficult process and will not arrive perfectly expressed). They are not illegitimate insights, but I genuinely worry that they face a real suppression: damaging for an individual, and for the public group 'women', it may take many years to negotiate this.

SuburbanRhonda · 23/11/2017 08:52

Agree, norah.

And as those of us who work in schools are now being made aware, proposed new legislation encourages schools to keep information from families who are struggling with any aspect of their child’s transgender journey, and to report families to social services if they aren’t 100% accepting of every aspect of it.

MillicentFawcett · 23/11/2017 09:41

Yes, the shutting down of dialogue and dissent is very alarming. Actually, it's not just that it's being shut down, it's the expansion of 'transphobia' to include any questioning of the narrative at all. So it's much broader than say racism.

I am at a loss as to how people cannot see how this entire movement is being driven by men. And how the censorship and silencing is not remotely liberal but profoundly illiberal.

RedToothBrush · 23/11/2017 10:33

What do cults do? They try and separate individuals from their family, so they have better control of them.

As I say, what is happening is dangerous for trans people, particularly younger more vulnerable trans people.

As well as damaging to their immediate families.

I think that the debate about trans people often gets stuck in the bathroom, but there is a whole other side to it, which isn't even about being gender identity and prejudice. There is a very real issue with the approach of trans activist politics.

To give another potential issue here too, when it comes to women's aid and the debate over access to it. Its been set up as a debate over the two groups competing due to lack of resources. I don't believe feminists want stop access to this type of support. They just want to recognise the particular specific interests of some women and be sensitive to those needs. By the same token there will be transwomen with very particular interests, because of the dynamic created by trans activist politics.

The way things are working out is that trans activists are effectively taking control of these organisations and the proposed law stop aid workers from perhaps being able to ask relevant questions to someone who is trans and maybe struggling with their identity in an abusive situation. In the context of trans politics being cult like can you see why where there might be an unhealthy conflict of interest here.

In theory, women's aid groups should be well placed to spot signs of abuse but the dynamics of politics mean that elephant may stay firmly in the room rather than talked about. And services for women might not be wholly appropriate for transwomen either. Because the two groups have unique experiences because they are different. Lumping the two together, means the opportunity to cater for both groups in the best possible way is lost. In saying there is no difference, trans activists are controlling individuals in both groups as it suits them. This is potentially creating a harmful dynamic.

That's why I convinced there WILL be problems with the trans community in the future BECAUSE of because of the way it is self isolating due to its OWN politics not simply because of transphobia. It is about POWER of the political leadership and not the overall very varied interests of its members who actually have a much wider range of experiences and spectrum of self identity than the politics promote.

Its a timebomb which will have social consequences, which its political leaders will try and blame on transphobia rather than their own dogma. Which will make the problem fester and be more difficult to resolve and fix.

I am sure there will be an eventual backlash because reality will create problems. But a lot of people will be hurt both mentally and psychologically in the process. Sadly its also distance some way in the future.

I do not hold out a lot of hope that politicians will even discuss this when it comes to the new law, because to do so is not politically acceptable at present. Its a new case of where the desire to be politically correct and the fear of speaking out by officials will allow and almost actively encourage abuse. It is the same dynamic that has produced some truly awful outcomes elsewhere.

But hell, what do I know. I'm clearly a TERF who is clearly transphobic and not interested in the safety and well being of trans people.

cromeyellow0 · 23/11/2017 12:54

From the article posted by Fairyflaps:

'Lily has now started a student group at school to give younger people someone to look up to.'

Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me ...

MillicentFawcett · 24/11/2017 11:55

Oh dear. Lily’s brother has called him out

Lily Madigan, TIM, elected Labour women's officer
Datun · 24/11/2017 12:03

MillicentFawcett

I saw that. Do you know what it’s about? Do you know exactly what he’s referring to?

MillicentFawcett · 24/11/2017 12:06

I’m assuming it’s referring to Lily saying the old Twitter account was a joke account set up by his brother. I’d imagine it must be a bit tiresome being Lily’s brother

Datun · 24/11/2017 12:10

MillicentFawcett

Ah. I wasn’t aware he had actually named his brother as the person who set up the ‘fake’ account.

Presumably he had to, as his brother was included in the conversation on it?

Yes, I agree. Very tiresome. This could get interesting.

hackmum · 24/11/2017 12:31

I hope his brother continues to call him out.

This has made me so angry I don't even know where to begin. That picture of Lily with Jeremy Corbyn in the link is just infuriating. Hasn't Corbyn got any sense at all?

Datun · 24/11/2017 12:33

I honestly don’t know how he thinks he can get away with denying it. The Twitter account had the conversations of two people, him and his brother.

The content of the conversations were clearly genuine. No teasing in it, at all.

I bet he gets away with it, though. On this occasion.

But I imagine he will just incriminate himself again, before long.

Or his brother will do it for him...

Not nice throwing your brother to the wolves. Especially to cover up your own failings.

pisacake · 24/11/2017 12:37

I hope his brother continues to call him out.

Has he?

ArcheryAnnie · 24/11/2017 12:37

I'd love to know where the parents are in all of this. There's a bit of me that thinks they must be relieved that he's out being tiresome with other people rather than staying home to be tiresome.

Copperkettles · 24/11/2017 13:01

Redtooth your posts are spot on. It must be hugely disrupting to the whole family to have a family member announce they are trans.

MaryMaryQuiteLovely · 24/11/2017 13:14

Copper
Yes, or a husband.

Maryz · 24/11/2017 13:18

From Millicent's link:

"Ireland's Gender Recognition Act was passed in 2015 - allowing legal gender change without medical assessment"

That's because no-one's bloody noticed yet. And because it seems the more extreme TRAs either don't exist or certainly aren't as loud.

So far the only visible transgender people are a few students (taking over the women's student officer roles, but hey ho, right on, isn't it great Hmm). Wait until an Irish olympic hopeful is beaten to a medal by a man and the shit will hit the fan (unless the man is Irish, obviously).

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.