James O'Brien: what a twat

[SelmaAndJubjub]

Explained in this link. Basically, he bullied and shut down a female caller who said she'd be frightened to share a changing room with men. He didn't just take an opposing view - he ridiculed her.

Yet another liberal bro reveals himself as a misogynist. And a stupid one. Even if he doesn't care about women in general, he has 2 pre-teen daughters. Will he really want them changing and showering with men?

ruth women don't have privilege that men can take away. There is no "hassle" needed to go through for men wanting to be treated as women. How many women raped by men claiming to be women is the appropriate number before you ask for some legal protections for women? Bear in mind for this last one that men commit 98% of all sexual offences and trans-identified males commit offences at the same rate as other men.

Ruth, why are you asking? When has anyone suggested that a man would do that?

We are discussing the matter of self identification which means a man can identify as a woman without having any medical treatment. I'm not having a go at you, it just looks like you have confused transsexual and transgender?

But do you really believe that there are trans-identified males just doing it to spite women? You say it’s not a hassle but I would imagine it would be a pretty drastic move and require a fair bit of explaining to friends/family for the average male. All just to spite women.

I don't know any bloke that would chop his dick off or wear a dress just to spite women

Under these proposals, men wouldn't need to do either of these things. Do you understand that there will be no gatekeeping?

Folks, when a new poster pops up on feminism to tell us (on this thread) that women have privilege over men, and on another thread to say feminists are man-haters who think a wolf whistle is sexual assault (despite having it drawn to her or possibly his attention multiple times that no feminist on the thread has said this) and in any case can't see what feminists are worried about because being on the receiving end of a wolf-whistle puts a spring in your step and generally gives a strong impression of hating women rather a lot... well, I tend to do an AS at this stage. It's usually very revealing.

There’s also the fact that “women” is a huge bracket encompassing many people and many vastly different situations

Yeah. Not male ones though.

Thanks Prickly disengage mode engaged.

Rosa,

I meant this quote: “The TRA movement exists so middle class, straight men can claim they are oppressed by women and take those women's rights.”

In fairness, it doesn’t actually state that men become transsexual to take women’s rights, but it’s still a ludicrously unhinged statement. I just don’t think the average middle class, straight guy knows/cares much about trans issues. And why would this epitome of male privilege not just be basking in the glory of his male privilege if it were so rosy for him?

Ruth, the prison service have already warned that men in prison will say they are transgender to get access to the women's prison.

Travis has claimed this to get access to the woman's changing room, because he felt threatened in a man's changing room but won't accept a woman might feel threatened by him. And actually he's saying he's "gender fluid".

Are you familiar with Danielle Muscato? Do you know how attacks by men posing as women are escalating? Do you know what autogynaephilia is?

I would really urge you to read the links in the OP because all of them, especially Fair Play reply, give an excellent overview of the problems of "self identification".

You say it’s not a hassle but I would imagine it would be a pretty drastic move and require a fair bit of explaining to friends/family for the average male

If they allow you to identify as non binary, really not much explanation at all. And you can use whichever sex segregated spaces you feel like! Yay progress!

Ruth ". And why would this epitome of male privilege not just be basking in the glory of his male privilege if it were so rosy for him"

He can do both. Get access to women's spaces and keep his privilege.

Thanks Prickly.

Prickly,

I’m not a new user, I’m just posting under a different account for anonymity. And please show me where I said wolf whistling puts a spring in one’s step.

I’m not arguing that women aren’t less privileged than men, more that it’s a bit ludicrous to behold so many middle class women in modern day England portraying themselves as poor little victims. You can say what you like but 93% of women don’t want to call themselves a feminist and I think the above is part of the reason.

Ereshkigal,

You seriously think that most blokes could just turn up and meet their mates down the pub in a dress. No drama.

Ruth, no, they turn up looking like Danielle Muscato.

I’ll bet that when apartheid was abolished there were lots of people who didn’t want to share their spaces with black people. And they also likely had the violent crime stats to back up their argument.

Personally I find Rachel Dolzeal's appropriation of black culture to be a more convincing analogy than apartheid.

Ruth I have to get some kip and I might not have MN time for a couple of days
But I will chat again when I can

Can I just ask, what do you feel when you switch it around and ask, why does someone like Muscato, who Tweeted "suck my dick" on International Women's Day, want access to a woman's toilet, with a gap above the stall etc, or a woman's changing room or a woman's hospital ward? What do we lose if we don't grant that right to those asking?

What makes this so important that's it's going to Parliament? Why do you think the transgender lobby feel so strongly that they must be able to "self identify"?

Why do sex segregated facilities exist in the first place?

FFS. JOB is a twat, always has been.

But WHY are women defending biological men invading changing rooms, rape crisis centres, intimate examinations etc. ?!

No one knows what it "feels like" to be the opposite sex. And it is sex, because gender is a societal construct and a load of utter bollocks that harms both 'genders' (sexes).

To me, TERF is not a criticism it's a statement of fact that I am proud of. I am proud because - while I will use requested pronouns and afford dignity to anyone - I do not and will not accept a biological male in the few spaces reserved for biological females. This is NOT bigotry.

I think people like Muscato are a genuine danger and likely not representative of the majority. In truth, it’s a difficult issue and I do genuinely understand the concern. But I also think there is a lot of thinly veiled hate for trans people, often seemingly for no other reason than the fact they were born a male.

I apologise if I’ve been a bit goady but I hate oppression olympics and think they are often employed by people who love drama/self indulgence.

Unabridged. That’s not an appropriate comparison. Women are the underdogs in society.

I’m not sure it’s that simple, Labra.

I do believe that we live in a patriarchal society yet I don’t think it’s a big conspiracy as many feminists seem to.

Society has evolved over thousands (millions?) of years and it’s only the last few hundred where we’ve had the privilege of focusing on feminist issues. Prior to that, we’d likely have been more worried about raping/pillaging by neighbouring tribes etc. Men would have been our protectors for obvious reasons and one might even have said that the same was true as recently as WW2.

Society is changing for the better but I think a lot of people focus on a very narrow part of the big picture.

I missed this but was gutted when I read about it because I agree with J O'B on a lot of things (if not everything), but the transcript just reads terribly. It was like he'd already made up his mind what she was going to say and why (in his head), and therefore decided he didn't need to listen to a word of it before just ranting over her. Half the time he was quoting her as "saying" pretty much exactly the opposite of what she was actually trying to say

I thought the two responses were great though. I hope he will read and consider them at least. It would be good if an opportunity could be made for a real and more reasonable discussion.

Ruth - your reading of millennia of history is of men as protectors of women??!!!

May I ask, are you a woman? An actual woman, not a man who "feels like a woman"?

Ruth - genuine question - if you had a daughter would you be happy for her to get undressed around someone you did not know who has with a fully functioning penis ? In a closed off, private space like a women's bathroom?