James O'Brien: what a twat

[SelmaAndJubjub]

Explained in this link. Basically, he bullied and shut down a female caller who said she'd be frightened to share a changing room with men. He didn't just take an opposing view - he ridiculed her.

Yet another liberal bro reveals himself as a misogynist. And a stupid one. Even if he doesn't care about women in general, he has 2 pre-teen daughters. Will he really want them changing and showering with men?

@jellyfrizz The solution to is to look at the reasons why trans women are scared to use the male toilet and deal with that. Treat the problem rather than the symptoms.

Sometimes, the simplest solution is staring you in the face and it just takes someone to say it out loud. I use this reasoning about rapists all the time - teach them not to rape to start with. Sod off with all the resigned "rapers gonna rape, so women have to protect themselves" bollocks. No idea why I hadn't simply linked it to this as well.

Yy datun. To the whole post but particularly...
Mtt are famous for doing things, ftt famous for having babies.

Datun

I haven't said half the things you state I have. If you read my posts you'll see that I acknowledge the potential threat to women.

Morningrunner

I'd have no issue with that tbh. However, I think (well, speculate) that a lot of trans people might feel this a barrier to fully integrating / a reminder that they can never truly be the gender they wish. Not saying they deserve to overrule women on this, just that I think they would rather 'live' as their chosen gender and will very much seek to be allowed to enter the according space.

(especially privileged middle class women who so often seem to be the feminists I encounter)

I am so tired of posts like this (in this case from UnbridledRuth, though they are pretty common so it's not just her) which, when unable to come up with any argument, say "oh, it's just privileged women whining about this issue anyway".

Well, that completely erases and dismisses and ignores all the unprivileged women who talk about this, are angry about this, are trying to protect women's spaces. And with good reason. Who do you think are the women most likely to end up in prison, sharing a cell with a rapist who has a penis but who calls himself "Paris" or "Davina" or "Jessica"? Not "privileged middle class women", I can tell you.

And the DV services, the rape crisis services, the women's refugee services - all my life I've seen women, working class women, with no money, no connections, still slogging away to establish, fund and protect those services, because nobody else is going to do it for them. And here comes a bunch of men coming to take those services away from these not-privileged, not-middle class women.

And you know what? Being "privileged" and "middle class" has never protected women from male violence. Why should those women who would come under this label have to put up with surrendering their safety, privacy and access to services because a bunch of even more privileged, middle-class men want to seize everything for themselves, because god forbid any woman, of any class, put herself and her sister first for once?

In reply to Ruth but re Annie's post...
I don't get to events often due to my disabilities and not having the funds (being on benefits). I know a few women in similar circumstances.
I am eternally grateful to the "privileged" women fighting on my behalf.

However, I think (well, speculate) that a lot of trans people might feel this a barrier to fully integrating / a reminder that they can never truly be the gender they wish. Not saying they deserve to overrule women on this, just that I think they would rather 'live' as their chosen gender and will very much seek to be allowed to enter the according space.

UnbridledRuth you are right, alas. I've been at a conference where they provided three sets of loos - women's loos, men's loos and gender-neutral loos. This was a conference with a very active no-harrassment policy, and where the gender-neutral loos were busy and safe. Even though the women's loos were quite out of the way and a bit awkward to get to, the most politically aggressive trans-identified males (either identifying as transwomen or identifying as non-binary) at this conference made a point of going to the women's loos, and only the women's loos. It was about validation, and establishing territory, not about "a safe place to pee".

@UnbridledRuth However, I think (well, speculate) that a lot of trans people might feel this a barrier to fully integrating / a reminder that they can never truly be the gender they wish. Not saying they deserve to overrule women on this, just that I think they would rather 'live' as their chosen gender and will very much seek to be allowed to enter the according space.

Can you point me to the official requirements list for "being a woman"? I've been on this planet for many decades and nobody ever told me there was paperwork I needed to complete, so I've just gone about being a female human in my own way. Which I could no more quantify, label and name than you can.

So this claim that trans people "can never truly be the gender they wish" is utter nonsense as it's not a thing you can define. Unless of course you mean skirts and lipstick. In which case you'll have to tell me where I hand in my gender.

God, that has wound me up. I normally like and respect James O'B.

But #HimToo just about sums this up. Another man telling women how to feel, that they're being hysterical. Another man shoving the Not All Men shit at us - outrageously bad behaviour in the context of the news on sexual assault recently.

He needs to read Shrodinger's rapist, rather than be interrogating women about being uncomfortable changing next to men. FFS. There is no hope is there?

just that I think they would rather 'live' as their chosen gender and will very much seek to be allowed to enter the according space.

You can frame it like that but you would be wrong.

Transsexuals, what transactivists call Truscum, are generally gay, have gender dysphoria, and just want to get on with their lives under the radar. The ones who pass have used our bathrooms for years. With no laws being changed. As a courtesy.

Those who don’t pass use the gents. Because, although they want to present as female to alleviate their symptoms, they wouldn’t dream of making women feel uncomfortable.

And they never have.

Now transsexual has been replaced by transgender. The people who are pushing this are not homosexual transsexuals, they are straight men, with fully intact genitalia, who have autogynephilia.

Cross dressing fetishists/transvestites in old money.

They are officially part of the transgender community, and are recognised by Stonewall as such.

They view women as weak, victims, subordinate, hyper sexualised. That is part of the fetish. The demand for access to women’s spaces is not to predate on women in the traditional sense, it is to be accepted as women because it is arousing.

There are numerous threads on here about it. There are numerous sites devoted to it. And there are numerous transwomen who have it who are quite happy to allow it in plain sight. Because the term transgender now legitimises it.

They really don’t care if you check out the profiles of them in pornographic poses wearing silk stockings and suspenders.

Because they are Teflon coated by calling themselves transgender. And why shouldn’t ‘women’ strike a sexual pose? Why shouldn’t they like kinky sex play? It’s an ‘identity’ that masks a fetish.

They are so far removed from homosexual transsexuals, it isn’t funny. And those homosexual transsexuals are infuriated. Because this sexual motivation to transition undermines the credibility of those with genuine gender dysphoria.

But, like women, whenever they object they are subjected to terrible threats, doxxing and relentless persecution.

James OB did not have a personality transplant on this particular day!

Archery

I'd have to respectfully disagree that class doesn't offer any protection against violence. Of course it's not absolute, but many drink/drug/antisocial behaviour problems are more prevalent in lower socioeconomic economic areas.

But I apologise if I've come across as diminishing the work done by others. I was talking about the fashionable feminism we see from degree educated women who sit in ivory towers writing articles telling other people to check their privilege. Bit of a stereotype but you get my drift.

Shotsfired

In the context of somebody who believes they were 'born into the wrong body' I would think that the ultimate golden goose of 'being a women' would for many involve being in the right body.

And UnbridledRuth. I just wanted to ask you this. Equal rights cannot ignore the current inherent power dynamic between men and women.

Can you, or anyone else, explain why there are not whole groups of men jumping up and down about this issue?

Why are men not worried that women identifying as men will compete against them in sport?

Why are men not worried that women might access their locker rooms, bathrooms, etc?

Why aren’t men storming out of Top Man and taking en masse to Twitter because they are concerned over women using them?

Why doesn’t James O’Brian get it?

James O'Brian doens't get it because he is virtue signalling left winger - the left wing equivalent of a right wing bigot. There's a lot of it about over the transgender issue.

... and he’s a man.

Datun

I honestly think most people I meet in real life care most about their partners and immediate family and don't really care about satisfying a somewhat indeterminate group.

Men aren't physically intimidated by women for obvious reasons - few women could pin down the average man against his will.

And whilst I'd never deny the unique challenges faced by each gender, and the obvious differences, one of my main issues with much of the feminism I encounter is that it's often very reductive in the sense that it downplays issues around class, race, etc, which are things that IMO often unify people more than gender.

I honestly think most people I meet in real life care most about their partners and immediate family and don't really care about satisfying a somewhat indeterminate group.

Except they are ruth. Women are.

Of course, the people I care most about my immediate family.

But when I look at the #metoo campaign, and read the accounts from women, I get angry, personally angry.

Because it comes at you from so many levels. Injustice is a big one.

Or the lightbulb moment when you realise that women’s experience of living and men’s experience of living are so very different.

The frustration when, no matter how hard you try, you can’t make men understand. The very lowering realisation that your life, and the lives of most women, are completely alien to men.

Because you think oh, he is an intelligent chap. He’s had life experience. He’s had a family. He is well read, educated.

You start to talk, and not only does he not get it, it annoys him. Or he genuinely doesn’t believe it.

And you start wondering why? Is it ignorance or is it wilful ignorance?

But apparently 93% of UK women don't get it either (not being facetious). Well, I actually think they do but don't want to be seen to identify with the less savoury aspects of feminism, which is why ~85% still profess to believe in 'equality'.

I totally understand that there are good feminists and worthy causes but there are also a lot of bad apples too. I just refuse to identify with a movement incorporating slogans like #killallwhitemen, especially when these bad apples are rarely called out by other feminists.

There are many many more examples but I'm sure they've all been brought up here before.

The #MeToo campaign has made me so angry - not least because I have so many experiences of my own. Experiences I have never reported - and I reckon every woman on this thread will know why I never reported them.

I know that my 9yr old DD will probably go through the same. Unless she is very very lucky. That makes me very angry.

And now we have to let men in our changing rooms - or be bawled out by right-on men : "what do you think I'm going to do to you?" - well, James, NAMALT, but have a fucking wild guess.

My post was to datun - datun your post was very eloquent.

Wow. UnbridledRuth
'less savoury aspects of feminism' , 'a lot of bad apples' 'incorporating slogans like 'killallwhitemen' ??

It looks like your prejudices are screaming showing. I'm sure there's a nice rabid MRA group somewhere who would appreciate your thoughts as with your level of prejudice, this board must torture for you.

Bahar Mustafa denies posting any tweets containing that hashtag, the case against her was dropped as there was no evidence offered that she had. It was an uproar about nothing at all.

Can you give an example of feminists who have used that hashtag as a slogan?

Imo Ruth, re intersection.

A middle class sahm has more understanding of my money worries than a working class man
A black woman has more understanding of my worries of random violence than a white man
An able bodied woman has more understanding of my health worries (which as well as the direct effects also coincide with female biology issues) than a disabled man