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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Men whose lives are facilitated by women - how did this happen??!

999 replies

windygallows · 09/11/2017 07:15

Now that I'm in my mid-40s I look around at my peers and am astounded that so many men my age have their lives facilitated by women: wives who don't work or who work part time who manage the household and make lunch for their DHs and do all the childcare and prop men up. It's just amazing how many men have a leg up by this support.

And they become blind to what it's like not having that support. My boss has a female PA, two female assistants, and a wife at home who looks after the household - leaving him totally supported and completely free to focus on his job. He thinks he's responsible for his success and doesn't understand why others can't mimic what he's achieved or even the time he dedicates to work.

How did we let this happen? How did we create a situation where so many middle aged men have such a leg up over women because they've been given so much support?

I've put this in Feminism because for me this is a feminist issue. If anything this situation it creates an absolute imbalance in life but also in the workplace, with men given much more freedom to dedicate to work and devoid of many domestic responsibilities that burden women.

I've also put this in Feminism because I'm trying to avoid the usual comments by women like 'We're a team' (referring to her and her DP) or comments like 'It works for us' or 'DH works hard and makes enough for both of us - should I go out to work just because you want me to.' blah blah blah I appreciate too that some women benefit from a set up where a DP/DH is 'looking after you' when you then facilitate/prop up his life in return, but I'm not quite sure it's really helping anyone in the grand scheme of things.

For context I'm in my mid40s, single with 2DCs and work FT and definitely frustrated when I see the advantages that 'facilitated men' have in the workplace and in life.

OP posts:
windygallows · 13/11/2017 22:47

I'm just about to go to bed and I know I posted this earlier on the thread but the one time when I really notice this gender gap and male privilege is on Sunday mornings. I live in Oxfordshire and on Sunday mornings I take my daughter out to horseback riding which is a real treat for her. As I drive the country roads I go past huge swathes of cyclists and 95% of them are men.

So it's more than likely the men have been at work all week and it's also more than likely they have a female partner who has done the lion's share of domestic work and childrearing during the week. So these women probably need a break, right. But NOPE says the DH. Sunday mornings are for me to fuck off and spend 4 hours cycling through the countryside!!

I know that sounds totally bitter and I don't know the circumstances of any of these men and there may be a myriad of different set ups at home. But there's something irksome about just seeing the flock of men, free and racing down hills, knowing full well that a woman is keeping the home fires burning and that it's highly unlikely she's had 4 free hours of delightful cycling herself that week.

I know I sound crazy. It's the visual image and the thought behind it that makes me nuts (did i mention that my stepfather was an avid cyclist and always thought he had the RIGHT to go on long rides every weekend all the time because he could?)

OP posts:
MoreProseccoNow · 13/11/2017 22:53

Yes, Windy - the sheer entitlement of the Facilitated Man includes time-consuming hobbies at the weekend. Because he’s worked hard all week, of course.

I remember when my DP worked away/long hours & he would want to play golf at the weekends. I really struggled on my own, juggling work, a tricky commute & 2 young children.

I would have a mental image in my mind of clubbing him to death with the sodding clubs.

Kr1st1na · 14/11/2017 06:17

I think you are me moreproseccnow.

This was my approx daily schedule when my kids were small

5.30- 7:30. feed baby, get self and kids up, dressed, showered and ready for work / nursery . Service husband

7:30-9:00 drive kids to nursery and commute to work

9-4 work ( no break , just a sandwich at desk )

4-6 commute plus collect kids from nursery

6- 11 childcare, housework , online shopping, preparing and cleaning up from two meals ( kids at 6.30, DH at 8), domestic management and catching up on paid work ( not done because I left at 4 #lazy)

11-5:30 sleep interrupted by baby needing fed, children who can’t sleep and H wanting sex.

This was DH routine.

8-9 leisurely breakfast at home alone

9-7:30 work ( no commute ) , including a long lunch break “ with clients “ going to gym , shopping etc

7:30 - 1:00 Eat dinner , relaxing at home, watch TV, catch up on work

I:00 - 8:00 sleep

So at weekends he would work for about half a day, sleep another half and then relax / do hobby for the rest of the time because he’d had a busy week.

He couldn’t be expected to do any housework or childcare because he was Ft and I was PT.

And of course he had to catch up on sleep , his important job was very tiring . Even though he got 8 hours a night and I got about 6 hours broken sleep ( last child didn’t sleep though the night until he was 3 1/2 years ) .

So H worked about 55-60 hours a week. All paid . Very well paid. He worked away a lot, staying in lovely hotels and flying business class. As befits an Important Man with an Important Job.

I worked about 120 hours a week, of which 35 were paid.

Of course I didn’t think of it all as work, I thought of it as being a mother and spending time with my children. But it didnt make me any less exhausted.

But as all we women know, I was The Lucky One, who was able to have it all by having kids and a career.

I was “ lucky” that my employer and my husband “ allowed “ me to work “ part time “.

Of course I didnt get promoted or even given decent work, because I was just PT and on the mummy track.

H of course was a hardworking man, in the office until 7pm or later, and working at weekends and away from home. So he was promoted and earned well.

Of course I felt guilty all the time. Because

My employers were “ doing me a favour “
My colleagues were “ carrying me “
My children were neglected because I was always tired and grumpy
I was a terrible friend because I had no time for anyone
My career was going nowhere
My house wasn’t kept beautifully
My kids didn’t do loads of extra curricular activities.
I wasn’t making the same financial contribution as my husband
I was always exhausted even though I was “ only part time “ and I couldn’t work out how to do it better.

My husband complained all the time . I didn’t spend time with him in the evenings, watching TV until 1am. He didn’t get enough sex. I didn’t entertain his family enough. I “let myself go” and never went to the gym. I wasn’t the size 8 he married ( I was a 12). I wasn’t as glamourous as the women at work . I wanted to talk to him about the kids when he wated to relax . I wanted him to spend time with the kids at weekends. I wasnt grateful and appreciative enough of his hard work and great sacrifices to support the family.

He never felt guilty. Why would he?

This has made me really REALLY angry just thinking about it.

SophoclesTheFox · 14/11/2017 06:53

Oh Kr1st1na, I feel angry and exhausted just reading that.

How could your husband watch you go through that? That's awful.

speakout · 14/11/2017 06:57

Kr1st1na I am sorry you had such a shit time.

But you know that's not even about feminism any more- that's verging on abusive.

Vashna · 14/11/2017 07:07

Krist1na - are you still married to him?!!

This is what my DH manages to fit into a week, if not travelling -

Mon night -boxing club
Wed morning - private karate lesson
Sat morning - karate (with DC)
Sun morning - rugby
Some point in weekend - at least a 3 hour bike ride

This is the bare basics if he's not training for an event. He also races cars (st least one day per month) and is cycling round the world in stages as a yearly fixture. This year he has climbed two mountains and done two triathlon-type events overseas. Plus another expedition they did. In summer he cycles a lot more - e.g. London to Box Hill and back or to Brighton maybe twice a week.

Thr reason I put up with this is because I have time when the kids are st school in the day and I have a cleaner. Plus, he never complains or moans - that is the thing I couldn't live with. He's very complimentary in general.,

MelodyvonPeterswald · 14/11/2017 07:09

I know that sounds totally bitter
I know I sound crazy

What?? Never!
You sound entirely balanced, content, hinged and fulfilled. You are my hero.

Stillwishihadabs · 14/11/2017 07:17

Ahhh now we get to the crux I believe, you can push and push (and be partly successful) for a man to take on his share of the childcare/domestic duties mon-fri, but when you are both "off" at the weekend it is another story....

ChilliMary · 14/11/2017 07:18

kr1st1na - such a poignant post. I am livid reading this, and the anger just rises! Why, why is this possible? Why don't men, who behave like, eventually realise that this is shockingly bad, unfair and all but de- humanising for the partners? The sheer entitlement of these men, drummed into them from a young age, is breathtaking. Makes me so mad!

speakout · 14/11/2017 07:24

but when you are both "off" at the weekend it is another story....

But that's a relationship issue.

This is what melody and I are trying to say.

It needn't be like that.

As a SAHM come the weekend when my OH was home I wouldn't set a foot inside the kitchen.

speakout · 14/11/2017 07:25

I wouldn't stay with a man who disregarded my feelings like that.

speakout · 14/11/2017 07:28

I can't see it's a feminist thing to do.
Those that argue SAHM have taken the patriarchial option have to look at Kr1st1na's lot and many other frazzled mothers like her.

Vashna · 14/11/2017 07:36

I think men who are "entitled" are one thing. I think men who make cruel comments about your appearance or continually make you feel undermined are another matter entirely and I could not live in that dynamic. It's actually irrelevant whether you're a SAHM or WOH - there has to be a certain level of respect, otherwise what is the point?

windygallows · 14/11/2017 07:38

Oh god Melody are you back? Don't you have lunches to make or your DH's ironing to do? A special cuddle to provide? Aren't you busy 'working' in the home? Honestly 99% of posters on this thread have told you how you just don't get it and you still come back for more.

OP posts:
MelodyvonPeterswald · 14/11/2017 07:42

Don't you have lunches to make or your DH's ironing to do? A special cuddle to provide? Aren't you busy 'working' in the home

You are a shining, shining beacon for the sisterhood.

speakout · 14/11/2017 07:46

windy- that's just plain nasty.

Stillwishihadabs · 14/11/2017 07:50

So on this thread there are SAHPs whose WOHPs do all the cooking, shopping, oh and meal planning, laundry and ferrying of children at the weekend Hmm. Actually what I think happens is the SAHP sorts all this out during the week, so weekends are free for lovely, lovely family time/ date nights/ hobbies all facilitated by the SAHP

cheminotte · 14/11/2017 07:54

I totally get your cycling example windy , like the swimming for me, a weekly reminder of the inequality of our lives.
I enjoy cycling myself and have had colleagues who have cycled to work every day and asked me why I didn't. They didn't get that that would have been wholly unpractical with 2 DC to get to childcare and pick up after work. I managed it one day a week and it was my favourite day of the week.
Someone early in the thread said their dp couldn't do xyz because they cycled to work. I thought well that is a choice, there are workplaces where you can only drive there but not any where cycling's the only choice.

speakout · 14/11/2017 07:58

Stillwishihadabs yup youv'e got it.

How uncanny. Hmm

Stillwishihadabs · 14/11/2017 08:08

I say this because this is what DH moans about and can't really fathom why "we" don't have time for. TBH MIL is the same and even DM gives me the distinct impression we "should" have more lesiure at the weekend during term time. We both work 40-50 hours a week, we share childcare (mostly) at the weekend there just aren't great swathes of time to ride round the countryside, drive 3 hours each way for a family lunch or have a romantic getaway. Do I mind ? Sometimes I am wistful, but I made an absolutely conscious decision 2 years ago that I wouldn't take a pay cut, comprimising my pension contributions and my career prospects and making the rest of my time at work MORE stressful in order that no one else had to worry about clean socks, pants and shirts for Monday morning. Selfish ? Probably but no more than millions and millions of WOHDs . I am lucky that a have a strong peer group of working mothers and regularly talk about "acting male" in order to progress.

PolarBearGoingSomewhere · 14/11/2017 08:08

And here we are again. Women pitched against women. Some of the last page has been downright nasty.

I feel so fucking empowered Hmm

20nil · 14/11/2017 08:09

I’m angry just reading that Kristina. Don’t know how you didn’t explode. Sad thing is, at least judging by a lot of posts here, it’s not that unusual.

p.s. Don’t feed the GFs.

KERALA1 · 14/11/2017 08:11

Windy one of those cyclists is probably dh - I go on my long cycle rides on Friday mornings Wink

Vashna · 14/11/2017 08:12

Krist1na - I'm so sad reading your earlier post. You say this was when the kids were little - has life improved since?

MarshaBrady0 · 14/11/2017 08:14

Kristina I’m surprised you got through that without doing something drastic, so exhausting

I found working ft easy in comparison to that list - but I’ve always pushed for more 50/50 with dh, had a cleaner, a nanny - the latter stopping that rushing.

I refuse to take all the crap work on but it does take some energy to get like that which is annoying in itself

Admittedly no young babies at the time

I also don’t have a corporate job that’s not for me - can be quite enjoyable