Men whose lives are facilitated by women - how did this happen??!

[windygallows]

Now that I'm in my mid-40s I look around at my peers and am astounded that so many men my age have their lives facilitated by women: wives who don't work or who work part time who manage the household and make lunch for their DHs and do all the childcare and prop men up. It's just amazing how many men have a leg up by this support.

And they become blind to what it's like not having that support. My boss has a female PA, two female assistants, and a wife at home who looks after the household - leaving him totally supported and completely free to focus on his job. He thinks he's responsible for his success and doesn't understand why others can't mimic what he's achieved or even the time he dedicates to work.

How did we let this happen? How did we create a situation where so many middle aged men have such a leg up over women because they've been given so much support?

I've put this in Feminism because for me this is a feminist issue. If anything this situation it creates an absolute imbalance in life but also in the workplace, with men given much more freedom to dedicate to work and devoid of many domestic responsibilities that burden women.

I've also put this in Feminism because I'm trying to avoid the usual comments by women like 'We're a team' (referring to her and her DP) or comments like 'It works for us' or 'DH works hard and makes enough for both of us - should I go out to work just because you want me to.' blah blah blah I appreciate too that some women benefit from a set up where a DP/DH is 'looking after you' when you then facilitate/prop up his life in return, but I'm not quite sure it's really helping anyone in the grand scheme of things.

For context I'm in my mid40s, single with 2DCs and work FT and definitely frustrated when I see the advantages that 'facilitated men' have in the workplace and in life.

Wow, reading what some of you ladies have to put up with as SAHM I'm starting to think that the feminist ideal of the high flying career is actually the slackers choice!

I'm not pitched against anyone except societal expectations

Kristina I'm so sorry things were so tough for so long.

I do feel like yours is an extreme example but it is indicative of the attitudes of some men. Bringing in enough money to feed and house and clothe children is a part of parenting - a vital part. I suppose when you consider Maslow's hierarchy of needs it's pretty much the bare minimum. But it isn't and shouldn't be at the exclusion of everything else and it doesn't give anyone the right to behave that way.

In this case I will have to say NAMALT but many, many men carry a grain of the privelege and narcissism (?) that your hopefully XH had in spades and that's the issue.

Parsnip - Krist1na was/is not a SAHM - she is working 9-4 for 5 days a week!

It was much harder when I was freelance keeping cc costs down by working when dh got home. My choice entirely as wfh meant I could do it but there’s something to be said for regular hours and great cc (nanny) almost like a sahp

The things that annoy me now are people saying juggle and frazzled. No more than dh. And in the case of one assumptive owner - you’re going out again what about the children. When I worked about 10 hours a week. When I’m not at your work I’m home with them. So silly

Brilliant topic.

I have a 50/50 relationship when comes to domestic stuff. However I’m now having baby number 3 and broached subject of shared parental leave. I take 6 he takes 3 and he baulked.

Melody do you even know what the sisterhood is? The ERA? Roe v wade? Mary wolestonecraft? Betty Friedan? You just don't. You do not seem v well read.

Just because you're a woman doesn't mean you are my 'sister' or you subscribe to any of my values. Or logic quite frankly. Logic, Meloday. You've spent the whole thread being goady and trying to prop up your choices and not comprehending.

For the last time you may have discovered that latching onto a man Is your meal card and allows you to opt out of that uncomfortable yucky workforce but not all women want that life. Fgs.

Christ kristina that’s awful :(

You speak in the last tense - I hope that means you’ve divorced the useless git? Or is he buried under the patio..?

"Meal ticket"!

Bit of a negative way to describe that life choice.

For the last time you may have discovered that latching onto a man Is your meal card and allows you to opt out of that uncomfortable yucky workforce but not all women want that life. Fgs

Haven't you twice said on here that the most important element of determining a women's quality of life is marrying the right man not her career? You have pretty much advocated "latching on to a man" yourself. I have never been an SAHM or wanted to be one but that is a nasty and spiteful thing to say.

As for the cyclists on a Sunday morning - what a massive projection about people you know nothing about.

The belittling of other women's experiences on this thread who have poured their hearts about about their lived experiences is appalling. Some of you should be bloody ashamed of yourselves.

I agree the thing about cycling is massive projection. Reminds me of those people complaining about the SAHMs lunching all the time.

I really don't want this thread to get nasty and descend into personal insults.

The silly comments about "the sisterhood"( the only people who ever use that word are anti feminists) and disparaging remarks about SAHM.
I don't think this thread is about the merits or otherwise of women working, as Kr1stinas post illustrates. It's about the assumption that man does big job, woman facilitates every other bloody thing ( AND often WOHM)
I do agree about cyclists though, but that is my personal prejudice..! ( the lycra clad middle aged arses, the riding 2 abreast on country lanes, the sense of entitlement...it's almost a phobia.)

Enormous weekend cycle rides come up again and again on the relationship boards as a massive bone of contention for many women married to keen cyclists. But yeah, just projection

I think @Kr1st1na's post illustrates that for many women, even if they WOHM, nothing changes because their job is secondary. And the fact is that many women have no choice. Once they're on the 'mummy track' there's no point in going back to work because they still have to do all the wifework, just fit it in around their job.

And for the facilitated man, nothing changes. So women are trapped.

So women are trapped.

I don't feel trapped.

And I know my personal experience is viewed as "irrelevant" here, but if I feel like this then I assume others do too.

What if you decided you wanted to work though @speakout? Would you husband pick up half the wifework?

I do work 15-20 hours a week.

I could work full time if I wanted, but I value my free time.

I have no doubt that my OH would pick up the slack.

DH does his hobby on Sunday mornings (it's not cycling).
I do mine in the week as I'm a SAHM.
Yesterday I had a book club with friends, all SAHMs. One friend couldn't make it, she had an appointment with her PT.
I'd hate to think people were looking at my DH at the weekend and assuming his facilitating wife was at home "keeping the home fires burning".

Sorry, clicked too soon.
Nobody knows what arrangements couples have at home, just by seeing a lycra clad cyclist on a Sunday.
Apart from the cases on the Relationships board of course.

It is easy for women to get trapped into a path they don’t want

Probably what I try to avoid most on both sides - working when I don’t want to and being stuck at home when I don’t want to be.

Yeah, I can defo see how some women become trapped (and also some men in their role of provider). I think it works both ways tbh. Just like there are men who won't pick up the slack, I'm sure there are women who would be reluctant to re-enter the work world earlier than anticipated to accommodate their husband's wishes to increase his involvement.

Thank you for your kind comments. I’m aware my situation is very commonplace which is why I explained it in such detail ( for those who seem to have trouble understanding the issue).

I know that’s what “ having it all “ is to many women - working twice as many hours as their husbands for half the money . And having to be grateful for it.

When I complained to my husband, his answer was “ well quit if you are not coping. You don’t have to work, it’s your choice “.

My friends and family told me I shouldn’t complain as he was such a great provider. And at least I wasn’t working in a factory for NMW. I had a Career and Proper Professional Job.

When the third baby came along , I couldn’t cope any more. My job was relocated when I was on Mat leave to further away from home so we would have needed a nanny ( couldn’t fit work and travel into nursery hours ) .

So this is what happened .

1. I threw away my career and took a local job three days a week ( gosh I hear you say what a surprise )

1. Nightmare step kid went off to uni ( forgot to mention that issue)

1. Life got easier when my three went to school

1. I grew to hate H because of his selfishness. So when I found out that he was in fact shagging one of his staff on all these trips away / late nights, I was shocked but not devastated. Although Patio option was tempting.

1. Once marriage ended, I got a cleaner. And I found I had so much more time every evening because I wasn’t spending hours helping him with his work reports and listening to his problems. Aka being a supportive wife.

But of course I was a bit stuffed because I’d thrown away my career to facilitate his. Which is kind of where this thread started .

Reading this back I feel so angry that I basically missed all of my children’s babyhood and toddler hood because I was just a machine driving on to the next task in the most efficient manner. I was just exhausted for years.

I also feel guilty that I was desperate for my kids to go to school .

I once heard a radio 4 program about SAHDs. All of them went on about how hard it was bringing up their one or two NT kids. And that they could only cope because their wives made sure they had one day off a week.

I didnt get one day off a year. And I know lots of women are in exactly the same situation. MN is full of women who spend weeks planning Christmas and will work their butts off for the entire holiday to make sure everyone else has a good time.

And men who will feel they are are a hero because they carve the turkey and load the dishwasher on Christmas Day.

Being part of a team. Playing to their strengths. Living the dream.

Kr1st1na, you described me to a tee including how I felt: inadequate, bewildered why I can’t manage, after all I am a reasonably bright woman with a Masters degree. I worked FT and on some occasions would stay up until 1am to cook a curry or a soup, something homemade and healthy because I was fed up of takeaways/ ready made junk. Husband didn’t mind either way.

I felt torn and inadequate, DH never did. It didn’t bug him the house was a bomb site, there was a mountain of laundry etc. It was not on his list of concerns. Crunch point came when I realised I was that burnt out, I didn’t want to kiss and cuddle my own kids or had energy to read them a story. I wanted to be left alone and SLEEP. I absolutely adored my job, but I couldn’t do it all. Now I stay at home as good as, kids and husband are so much happier. I am more laid back. But not a week goes past that I don’t think about my old job (it’s been four years), I miss it, I miss my colleagues, the brain challenge, the drive. Staying at home I will always have a part of me that is unfulfilled.

Looking back, it was not my job that was a problem. I would have been very happy to go to work, come home to a clean house, a nice meal and spend the evening playing with my children. There would have been no conflict if I had a wife and if I could essentially live a man’s life: work, relax, spend time with the kids. Sounds ideal.

My downfall was the ‘household/family load’, this is what dragged me down, not my job. Having to effectively do a second job after hours. AND spend a meaningful time with the children.

Husband wanted to relax in the evening, he didn’t see that glass by the sink as important. And I ran ragged, because living in a pigsty gets me down. It is a fairer balance now, DH relaxes in the evening, I relax in the morning / and one or evenings to go to the gym.

It is my dream life? No. I would much rather have somebody else do the drudge work, so I can pursue worthwhile and fulfilling things like a career. The problem is putting three young kids in childcare, hiring a cleaner and a cook, the family will be worse off financially even with two incomes coming in.

Kr1st1na, that’s interesting, I also couldn’t cope anymore after a third child came along. I managed to hold it together in some way before then, but after my third, it became totally unmanageable. Had to leave work altogether for everyone’s sanity. Is there something in the numbers?