Men whose lives are facilitated by women - how did this happen??!

[windygallows]

Now that I'm in my mid-40s I look around at my peers and am astounded that so many men my age have their lives facilitated by women: wives who don't work or who work part time who manage the household and make lunch for their DHs and do all the childcare and prop men up. It's just amazing how many men have a leg up by this support.

And they become blind to what it's like not having that support. My boss has a female PA, two female assistants, and a wife at home who looks after the household - leaving him totally supported and completely free to focus on his job. He thinks he's responsible for his success and doesn't understand why others can't mimic what he's achieved or even the time he dedicates to work.

How did we let this happen? How did we create a situation where so many middle aged men have such a leg up over women because they've been given so much support?

I've put this in Feminism because for me this is a feminist issue. If anything this situation it creates an absolute imbalance in life but also in the workplace, with men given much more freedom to dedicate to work and devoid of many domestic responsibilities that burden women.

I've also put this in Feminism because I'm trying to avoid the usual comments by women like 'We're a team' (referring to her and her DP) or comments like 'It works for us' or 'DH works hard and makes enough for both of us - should I go out to work just because you want me to.' blah blah blah I appreciate too that some women benefit from a set up where a DP/DH is 'looking after you' when you then facilitate/prop up his life in return, but I'm not quite sure it's really helping anyone in the grand scheme of things.

For context I'm in my mid40s, single with 2DCs and work FT and definitely frustrated when I see the advantages that 'facilitated men' have in the workplace and in life.

My mother was born in the USSR in the 60s. Women over there were expected to carry the triple burden even more than Western women are today. She refused to do that, so she had to opt out of marriage or living with a man full-time all together. My father found himself summarily divorced once I arrived because he barely helped with the domestic work. Once she moved to the First Word she found that women over here didn't have it all that much easier in marriages despite the rhetoric, so she stuck to her guns in refusing to facilitate men despite having a long list of romances.

The real upside of her rebellion is that I grew up with an automatic feminist mindset on this matter. I will never live with a man under romantic terms if I can help it and it feels like a great relief.

First World - typo.

It makes me realise that girls+women run the world behind the scene for free and with no thanks. In too many countries, daughters in the family are opted into domestic slavery for fathers & brothers when they're still toddlers.

There's that well-known estimate that women do 2/3 of the world's work hours. If you add girls to that - the proportion must be mind-boggling.

Back in the day when I worked full-time (just the normal 8-9 hour days during the weekdays) it struck me that there just wasn't enough time left over to facilitate your own life and still sleep enough (especially with the time sink of feminine grooming). It made me think that those standard work weeks are a relic from times past when most men had someone at home facilitating them full-time. Unfortunately the hours have only gotten longer recently.

Ava6

Interesting points.

When we are looking at the bigger picture maybe we nee to actually rethink the whole idea of a working week, the hours we have to work, the inflexibility of the whole system.
That's the bigger problem.
Rather than trying to shoehorn women into this traditional work scheme maybe we need to think about the bigger structure.
Do jobs really need to be 9-5 Monday to Friday.

I guess this stems from an archaic manufacturing/industrial revolution type of ethos when factories and fires were powered up at certain times.
Certainly we are governed by sleeping hours, but apart from that and the advances in remote working why does it still need to be the case?

I work from home. I work 7 days a week. I make stuff and sell online. I usually work 20 hours a week, but in the run up to christmas and a deluge of orders I will be working 40 hours a week.
I like to get up early. Some days I will work from 6-8 am before the school run. Other days more, some days none,
I make £50K a year profit.
I didn't work at all for 7 years when the kids were young, since then my business has been ramping up. Both my kids have had their own little online businesses since they were 14 or so.

If we are looking at structures then maybe we need to look at the really big picture.

I do agree that employers need to look at different ways of working. There is a real presenteeism culture in so many industries.

I have a few female friends (lawyers, IT workers) who are full-time & they can do so because they can work from home a fair bit, sometimes in the evenings. But the rest of us are stuck in inflexible roles (I’m NHS) so work part-time. If employers were more flexible, we would work more.

My partner works in commercial property development & they are all in the office from 8-7, or longer, working away/travel. There is only 1 woman employed in a professional role (unmarried, no kids). They are all facilitated men.

ava

If more women refused to participate like like your mother, there would be a seismic shift in the power balance between the sexes.

Agree completely that women are socialised from birth to serve men.

True Ava, now as a single parent I'm working mon-fri with nobody to faciliate me, and I faciliate the children. HOwever, as they're at school roughly the same hours I'm at work it works better for me than sporadic hours. I used to have to work Saturday mornings and that was awful. We all longed for the weekend and then the weekend finally came and I still had to get up early and they still had to get themselves up and dressed and ready and make their own breakfast on a Saturday as well, so at least now we have a two day break, and two days in succession where we all get a break from the grind.

But you're right, the working week is so much of the week, it must come from a time when the workers had the crusts cut off their roast beef sandwiches.

If more women refused to participate like like your mother, there would be a seismic shift in the power balance between the sexes

We have established that this is a path that is open to any individual woman (wonderfully explemified by Ava's mother despite the hostile environment).

If this is what any person genuinely wants, all power to them and I wish them well.

But please do not judge, criticise or demean other women who are happy to be part of a "team" (a word which has been used by OP with sneering derision here) ...here's just one example

I'm trying to avoid the usual comments by women like 'We're a team' (referring to her and her DP) or comments like 'It works for us' or 'DH works hard and makes enough for both of us - should I go out to work just because you want me to.' blah blah blah

I ask what is so wrong with this because OP then confusingly states

We're lying to our daughters by suggesting they can have it all themselves without telling them that it's not a career but latching onto a man that will probably make the biggest difference.

Well said melody.

speakout I just want to congratulate you on setting up your own successful business. What a terrific example to your children and how wonderful that they are following in your entrepreneurial footsteps. Good for you for getting up and doing something (rather than waiting for "them").

Melody are you still on this thread hijacking a FEMINIST CHAT?

Melody Oh and my comment saying that women today get more wealth through marriage than work, in general, is an observation it doesn't mean I support or condone it.

Go read a book on feminism before you start to make accusatory and garbled comments on Feminist Chat to make yourself feel better about your own decision because you're awfully chippy which suggests that maybe it's not all perfect. GOTEAM!

hereandthere your comments about work wives struck a chord. I worked in a magic circle firm and it was exactly as you described. Diligent talented women working like crazy actually doing everything whilst the partner swanned about, took the credit when the deal closed, his name inLegal Week. All fine except...the women never made partner! All the partners were men!

This is what the women I worked with did:
Married colleagues became sahms to him so he got facilitated (the most common one). No normal person could have a baby then go back to 100 hour weeks. And part time not possible.
Started left field businesses in alternative therapy or opened restaurants
Went in house

Don’t feed the troll OP. No one is that stupid.

My DH is a very senior partner in a law firm.

When he changed his working practices ( in part to support my work, in part to see more of the DC) lots of people said his job would suffer.

As it happens he now earns more than he ever did. His department is thriving and he has not lost one female colleague post maternity leave. Wins all round.

It can be done. We just need people in senior positions to model a more healthy way of working/earning.

make yourself feel better about your own decision because you're awfully chippy which suggests that maybe it's not all perfect. GOTEAM

Everytime you post, you prove exactly the kind of person you are and where you are coming from. Your highly contradictory statements on this thread say it all and reveal your true emotions.

No would ever claim that their life is perfect. All I am asking is that, for once, women please stop turning your resentment towards other women - inventing yet another insult - "Facilitators".

I have not judged your life. Please do not judge mine.

It's also very interesting that since the shift in culture in DH's department that the other men are working more sensibly/moderately.

And yet fee income is up!

Feminism is about trying to make all women’s lives better. Not just the privileged few who can do well in spite of the odds being against them. It’s not about blaming or judging individuals or “facilitators”. In fact that’s what you are doing when you suggest women should “just do what they want”, you are ignoring the structural barriers that exist for women in our society. If you don’t believe any structural barriers exist, most of us on this thread disagree with you, and op didn’t start the thread to debate whether they exist or not. So please stop derailing.

I think the biggest problem is alot of men choose to not even know about the 'wife work' so do think they made it on my own. My ex wasn't a high flying business man he earned just above the minimum wage but expected me to stay home with our 3dc. He wouldn't help me with even getting a part time job so I ended up doing 3-4 12 hour night shifts in a supermarket which I earned more than him and was still expected to do it all at home on the minimal sleep I got while the kids were at school. The first year was the worst as our youngest was only doing half days. If get home to a filthy house and the children not ready to go to school. In the end I just snapped.

Since we have split up I'm now in a part time admin role that bores the he'll out of me and I worry about the future as my pension has no money etc. The only other woman in the company I work for is doing the same as me after her marriage where they where 'a team' broke down leaving her with nothing.

I really do feel alot of women put themselves in a very risky situation choosing to give up their career if they have no financial safety net. I'm not saying child rearing isn't an important job but it doesn't put food on the table or support you in old age which is a worry.

Back to topic — how can facilitated men (1) realise / acknowledge what’s happening (2) be forced to take responsibility/ share opportunities eg like in the law firm example ? Obviously consciousness raising has to happen for the women too but they have less power to change the setup as they generally aren’t the bosses / ceos / etc ? Not just in career but also more generally?

Melody you seem to be under the impression that posters are attacking you personally, or even other women who do facilitate men? In fact this is a discussion about a worldwide, deeply entrenched phenomenon that has preserved the status quo and kept the system structurally in favour of men by the assumption that they will be facilitated by women.
As opposed to a thread about YOU and YOUR PERSONAL CHOICES.
Is that really so hard to understand?

If more women stopped facilitating men, it would mean men have to step up & request flexible working etc. That’s how you challenge the patriarchy. I think things are changing slowly. I hope it will be better for my DD’s generation: true equality.

yes, it's important to look at the structure which influences women to tend to make certain decisions, generally.

A lot of posters will read something and think, well! I am not a victim, or I made a conscious decision so how very dare you.