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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Men whose lives are facilitated by women - how did this happen??!

999 replies

windygallows · 09/11/2017 07:15

Now that I'm in my mid-40s I look around at my peers and am astounded that so many men my age have their lives facilitated by women: wives who don't work or who work part time who manage the household and make lunch for their DHs and do all the childcare and prop men up. It's just amazing how many men have a leg up by this support.

And they become blind to what it's like not having that support. My boss has a female PA, two female assistants, and a wife at home who looks after the household - leaving him totally supported and completely free to focus on his job. He thinks he's responsible for his success and doesn't understand why others can't mimic what he's achieved or even the time he dedicates to work.

How did we let this happen? How did we create a situation where so many middle aged men have such a leg up over women because they've been given so much support?

I've put this in Feminism because for me this is a feminist issue. If anything this situation it creates an absolute imbalance in life but also in the workplace, with men given much more freedom to dedicate to work and devoid of many domestic responsibilities that burden women.

I've also put this in Feminism because I'm trying to avoid the usual comments by women like 'We're a team' (referring to her and her DP) or comments like 'It works for us' or 'DH works hard and makes enough for both of us - should I go out to work just because you want me to.' blah blah blah I appreciate too that some women benefit from a set up where a DP/DH is 'looking after you' when you then facilitate/prop up his life in return, but I'm not quite sure it's really helping anyone in the grand scheme of things.

For context I'm in my mid40s, single with 2DCs and work FT and definitely frustrated when I see the advantages that 'facilitated men' have in the workplace and in life.

OP posts:
speakout · 11/11/2017 16:59

Maybe some women want to stay at home with young kids.

Stillwishihadabs · 11/11/2017 17:05

Oh speakout RTFT

speakout · 11/11/2017 17:08

If I hadn't, if I were doing all housework and 9-5 childcare, I would have expected to be given an allowance for that for myself and bills to be taken out of the household pot.

For many of us "facilitators" there is no concept of having an allowance.

Money is a central pot.
OH is completely aware that he is only able to earn like he does because of his OH bearing burdens of childcare and housework.

Therefore it is "our" money. No questions asked about who withdraws cash, or who spend what..

The idea of an allowance is horrible.

Stillwishihadabs · 11/11/2017 17:15

We are all different but for me acsess to a shared pot just wouldn't cut it. An acquaintance has that and has just been told off for buying her dcs innocent smoothies

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 11/11/2017 17:17

If he can only earn what he does because you do all the housework etc what is so terrible about you getting paid for it?

I should say I suppose I find joint bank accounts a terrible idea.

cheminotte · 11/11/2017 17:32

I was reading this thread this morning and then I took ds2 to his swimming lesson. It's a private one so during the public swim. In the pool was a happy family: mum, dad and two young kids (about 1 and 3 at a guess). Later I was helping ds get changed and in the female changing room was the mum with BOTH kids, who were boys. So she is having to manage 2 kids and get dressed herself while her DP/DH just changes on his own and waits for them all outside. Not much 'teamwork' going on there!

speakout · 11/11/2017 17:34

what is so terrible about you getting paid for it?

Because some things can't be measured in monetary terms.

Should a women charge her OH for giving birth? Or charge him for the money she has saved him from buying formula because she is breastfeeding?

Vashna · 11/11/2017 17:38

Lass - The thing is, as a "facilitator" SAHM, being given any kind of allowance would be highly patronising. In fact, I don't think I could have done it under those circumstances. DH and I have no concept of anything other than "our" money. I don't know how you can think about separate finances when you have DC.

speakout · 11/11/2017 17:39

So she is having to manage 2 kids and get dressed herself while her DP/DH just changes on his own and waits for them all outside. Not much 'teamwork' going on there!

THat's a relationship issue though.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 11/11/2017 17:41

Those are silly examples. If someone is required to cook, clean, collect children, etc because his work does not allow time for him to do them I can't see what is so terrible about acknowledging the contribution being made.

Husband and I have always worked full time. We paid for those tasks to be done.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 11/11/2017 17:45

So she is having to manage 2 kids and get dressed herself while her DP/DH just changes on his own and waits for them all outside. Not much 'teamwork' going on there!

THat's a relationship issue though

Yes, I agree. Perhaps it comes from his unthinking attitude reinforced by patriarchy or perhaps he is just a lazy git; either way what it needs to change it is the mother telling him to take the children if he isn't stepping up.

Vashna · 11/11/2017 17:45

We pay for the cleaning to be done too, Lass. But I don't need paying by DH because it's my money anyway.

speakout · 11/11/2017 17:51

Vashna I completely agree.

MarshaBrady0 · 11/11/2017 17:56

I’ve done all kinds of working, flexible freelance, wfh, ft as well as many years as a SAHM. I would have hated to be paid (plus I we paid a cleaner whether I was working or not).

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 11/11/2017 17:57

Each to their own. Personally I can't imagine not having my own income and my own bank account.

Vashna · 11/11/2017 18:02

Even when DH and I were both working we just put all out money together. He always earned considerably more anyway, so when I became a SAHM there wasn't a massive difference. I would not have children with a man who wanted separate finances, SAHM or not. That I am certain of.

Sevendown · 11/11/2017 18:04

I've been both a single mum working full time doing everything and a full time worker with a sah dp.

Work is so much easier when I don't have to think about dinner!

It's the emotional energy of thinking about household tasks that can be draining when it's easier to focus 100% on the job when you are at work and don't have to think about how you are going to organise time off for the plumber to fix the washing machine!
I really appreciate having a sah dp. I don't think men do as they have never tasted their own medicine.

speakout · 11/11/2017 18:06

LassWiTheDelicateAir

Personally I can't imagine not having my own income and my own bank account.

Fiscally sound.

How does that work in stormy waters though?

Many partnerships are a team, I know a cliche, but we hold each other together.
What if one of you were incapacitated, had MH issues or a child with a chronic illness, a partner needing chemotherapy?

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 11/11/2017 18:06

Yeah ok, that was a terrible ideaSmile. I agree it's patronising, and it should be joint money. I guess what I was trying to get at was the way only work which is paid is rewarded (e.g. with tax breaks). And the fact women who've had a career break find themselves stuffed financially if the partner leaves because they've sacrificed salary progression (my experience is that you actually start going backwards). I suppose maybe during a divorce the SAhm/d could present a bill for childcare / lost earnings?

MarshaBrady0 · 11/11/2017 18:06

I have my own and access to the other - but mostly because it felt easier when SE. Also I like having it, find it comforting. But realise it’s just a personal quirk - it doesn’t impact much on anything as money goes from one to the other pretty easily.

Vashna · 11/11/2017 18:21

Ineedacup - I think in cases where the SAHM model works best, the amount of money you have access to as a SAHM is not restricted and probably equal or more to what you would have if you were working. Over the years, many of the "facilitated" men end up earning a lot more than if both parents were working (around the DC and each other). The family as a whole benefits economically. So if you split, you would actually be better off than if you'd stayed single because you obviously get half of everything anyway. Of course, returning to work is a challenge, but not impossible.

MelodyvonPeterswald · 11/11/2017 18:30

I was reluctant to join in the praise for OP coining the phrase "Facilitated Man" because, lo and behold, the guns get turned on the "Facilitators".

speakout · 11/11/2017 18:32

I was reluctant to join in the praise for OP coining the phrase "Facilitated Man" because, lo and behold, the guns get turned on the "Facilitators".

And so predictable.

TheGrumpySquirrel · 11/11/2017 18:47

“How wonderful if you love the status quo and don’t want to consider what happens if your husband ups and leaves. What about all the other women who don’t want that and are being channelled into it because the people in charge quite like believing women are happy to look after families for nowt so restrict our choices for us?”

THIS 🙌🏼

MelodyvonPeterswald · 11/11/2017 18:53

OP
When asked earlier you said you didn't want a "facilitator" for yourself. Your gripe seems to be that so many men are "facilitated".

Yet you said:
Yesterday 09:00 windygallows
No one told me that if I want to have a comfortable life then I better get a man. In a way we're lying to our daughters by suggesting they can have it all themselves without telling them that it's not a career but latching onto a man that will probably make the biggest difference in terms of the comfort of their life and their wealth

"Comfortable life...Latching on to a man...comfort...wealth"

I am confused as to what you really want.