Men whose lives are facilitated by women - how did this happen??!

[windygallows]

Now that I'm in my mid-40s I look around at my peers and am astounded that so many men my age have their lives facilitated by women: wives who don't work or who work part time who manage the household and make lunch for their DHs and do all the childcare and prop men up. It's just amazing how many men have a leg up by this support.

And they become blind to what it's like not having that support. My boss has a female PA, two female assistants, and a wife at home who looks after the household - leaving him totally supported and completely free to focus on his job. He thinks he's responsible for his success and doesn't understand why others can't mimic what he's achieved or even the time he dedicates to work.

How did we let this happen? How did we create a situation where so many middle aged men have such a leg up over women because they've been given so much support?

I've put this in Feminism because for me this is a feminist issue. If anything this situation it creates an absolute imbalance in life but also in the workplace, with men given much more freedom to dedicate to work and devoid of many domestic responsibilities that burden women.

I've also put this in Feminism because I'm trying to avoid the usual comments by women like 'We're a team' (referring to her and her DP) or comments like 'It works for us' or 'DH works hard and makes enough for both of us - should I go out to work just because you want me to.' blah blah blah I appreciate too that some women benefit from a set up where a DP/DH is 'looking after you' when you then facilitate/prop up his life in return, but I'm not quite sure it's really helping anyone in the grand scheme of things.

For context I'm in my mid40s, single with 2DCs and work FT and definitely frustrated when I see the advantages that 'facilitated men' have in the workplace and in life.

LassWiTheDelicateAir

I find much of this thread very strange. I'm puzzled by what you want. There just seems to be such a huge sense of disatisfaction and grievance but what do you want done about it?

100%

I find much of this thread very strange. I'm puzzled by what you want. There just seems to be such a huge sense of disatisfaction and grievance but what do you want done about it?

Agreed.

I do however think the most irritating thing about it is their obliviousness to the support they have. My DH being one of those men!

I would not choose to live in a situation of such disrespect.

I find much of this thread very strange. I'm puzzled by what you want. There just seems to be such a huge sense of disatisfaction and grievance but what do you want done about it?

Oh FFS this is a thread on Feminist Chat about we're talking about something that is STRUCTURAL and that we take for granted in society and that will require a major shift to change. So it's not a magic wand kind of problem!

What would we like done about it? Better distribution of power, wealth and domestic work between men and women? More women in senior positions or even working after the age of 45 instead of the MASSIVE CLIFF that happens now with women leaving the workforce and letting men take over? An acknowledgement and awareness from men that their privilege and freedom is gifted to them not natural? No pay gap and more opportunities for women so they don't give up on the workforce and hand over the reins, and reliance, to a man? A new narrative and way of being for men? I could go on....

It's really belittling when quite a major issue is perceived as moaning by some women on this thread. It seems that some women on here appear to have signed up to be full time 'facilitators' and want to make others feel bad for questioning the set up. It may not benefit you to question or change things, and doing things may even threaten your set up, but for many many women this is a pertinent issue.

It seems that some women on here appear to have signed up to be full time 'facilitators' and want to make others feel bad for questioning the set up

You made your choices. They made theirs.

Women feeling that they don't need to think / worry about money is a big problem.

I think this is key. Yes, of course it is also a bug structural problem but there needs to be far more discussion around money - who earns it, who coukd earn it etc within the couple. I think the resentment often comes because the partner who earns more feels that he (or she) is working more although this is often not the case. If ALL resources (time and money) are pooled and discussed this would help. My partner knows he couldn't do his job without me. I am still resentful in some ways but not usually of him!

Excellent thread. I've really enjoyed reading it.

I'm a facilitator and I'm facilitated.

We have 2DC and both work FT. At first we shared pickup/drop offs roughly 60:40 (me:DH). DH does shopping and cooking. I do all the mental load and a lot of the childcare and all the night wakeups. We have a cleaner.

I'm facilitated by my parents who look after DC whilst I'm at work and cook for them and buy us milk and bread etc when we run out! (Unfortunately this will stop next year)

However, over the years DH has been promoted several times and now can hardly do any drop offs or pick ups. I on the other hand was so overloaded with work, waking up with DC at night plus my recurring migraines and all the mental load that I burnt out.

I lost all ambition and interest in my career. I side-stepped into an easier job which could lead to promotion but I don't want to put the energy into it. I want to see more of my DC. I want to spend less time in the office.

So it's logical for our family that DH continues to shine and advance and I facilitate that.

However this thread has made me question - if things hadn't been so uneven at the start with DC (me doing the nights for 6 years!) and if I too like DH had had time to exercise instead of being too exhausted and never a moment to myself... maybe I wouldn't have lost interest in my job?

DH says we're a team and he knows that cos I do all the pickups he is free to get home later (though since having DC he actually makes more of an effort to get home earlier). And for the past year he's encouraged me to redo sport and even go away with friends for a couple of weekends.

Is part of it not just a natural thing. I'm aware its not the case with every couple but often the woman stays home with the children as they are breastfeeding or simply find it harder to leave their child/children than their partner. Again, I know this is always the case but I know for me personally I have always found it harder to be away from my children than my husband has.

carefuil keeping up- you are in dangerous territory here.

I happen to agree.

Thanks OP for starting this thread. I am (very nearly) 42 and we have 2dcs aged 13 and 11. For 75% of our relationship I have out earned dh (both professionals) and since day1 have pushed back against the idea of female facilitation (dh has always done pick ups, drop offs, sick days etc). However despite all this and the children being older and less needy so much of this still resonates. Sometimes it feels like I am constantly swimming against the current ( of societal expectations) to get half of the facilitation that the vast,vast majority of men in my position take completely for granted. An example is next week I have late meetings (5:30 starts) on 2 nights (1 absolutely vital, 1 a CPD thing) so need DH to be home earlyish to do homework/dinner etc, he is doing it but the point is I NEEDED TO ASK AND/OR NEGOTIATE whereas I suspect a lot of men in my position (earn just shy of 6 figures for reference) would just assume they can do these things without checking with anyone.

What I dislike about this thread is the idea that this bunch of mindless Stepford wife " facilitators are somehow to blame for inequality.

Even calling SAHMs " facilitators"- a term often used for partners of alcoholics.

I see parents being facilitated everywhere. Both my immediate neighbours are grandparents and care for their grandchildren ( presumably free) full time or even part time.
A luxury many of us don't have.

thegrumpy this is why a lot of women sah i think, they know they'd be doing their woh AND everything at home and they'd be miserable. When you add in childcare costs for unders 3s, they often wouldn't even earn enough to cover outsourcing cleaning / cooking etc. And you can't just not do it if there are DC involved because some men just don't see what needs to be done. As I said upthread my DH would never clean the sheets (or the toilets for that matter). Yes, I could tell him to but then I'm doing the mental load, plus nagging. And then he'd do it once. And I have what I consider to be quite low household standards whilst ensuring my DC are well looked after, and DH does do other housework.

Men firstly don't seem to get educated on what is adequate child / house care and then opt out even when it's pointed out to them because they know a woman will do it. There is still this societal expectation that the work of child rearing is womens' work. This is why SAHD get such admiration for doing the same thing as gazillions of women. Even though, in the cases of SAHD I know, the woman still does quite a bit at home.

That's funny I think of facilitator like a group facilitator or the Belbin definition someone who keeps it all together.

melody that's right it's all about choice and that's all it is! Seriously, go read a book. What are you doing in FEMINIST CHAT?

Atlantic your narrative is very familiar and I'm sure similar to the experience of hundreds of thousands of women around the UK. But it means we're still left with a situation where men take over the reins at work and where is this ridiculous balance of power with men who don't have to worry about many things outside of their own remit. I'm 48 and at my age the workforce is DOMINATED by these men who have a ridiculous advantage. It's nuts and it continues to perpetuate a situation where men have so much more power.

By the way I object to the use 'facilitated' meaning the normal support that family and friends provide. I mean it to describe someone who is fully propped up, who has a huge amount of things DONE FOR THEM so they can focus on just doing a few core things. We are of course all facilitated with support whether from the state or family, and some more than others, but I'm talking about the invisible, structural, naturalized, continuous, 24 hour, significant support men get - usually by women - to give them a massive leg up over women. And it's about that it's not recognized and the hegemonic processes in place that allow this to continue.

OP
For context I'm in my mid40s, single with 2DCs and work FT and definitely frustrated when I see the advantages that 'facilitated men' have in the workplace and in life.

What do you want?
For the "facilitation" to be withdrawn from men?
Or to be "facilitated" yourself?

Melody get a grip. Why are you goading me and those on this thread? I've just written what I want below and that list is just a small list. But it's definitely not someone to facilitate me.

Melody, I get it. You've got a cosy life being a facilitator and it 'works for you'. I bet you're even 'part of the team' and your husband's success if 'your success'. Well done.

But as they say 'if you aint part of the solution then you're part of the problem.'

One more point, when the dcs are independant ( not so far away now), there is absolutely no way on god's earth that I will continue to facilitate an adult male. I mention this from time to time and he thinks I am joking ( I am so not joking, the cooking, the shopping, the washing and most of all the planning, the day dd leaves for uni it's all going to stop.

speakout

This thread is not talking about SAhM. It's talking about the men who succeed at work being facilitated by their wives. Regardless whether wife is a saHM.

I'm a classic example. I work FT. But over the years I've adapted my working pattern in order to be the one who picks DC up every night, leaving DH free to stay later at work or go to networking things.

If I need DH to do the morning drop off (which in theory is his task) I need to send him an invitation in his diary so it gets blocked. And even then sometimes he can't do it so I (not him) end up asking family for favours.

I make sure the DC have enough clothes that fit. Buy presents for their friends. Etc etc.

Fortunately DH acknowledges this. But I know men at work who don't see just how supported and helped they are.

It’s something that we need to work to undo, or it at least needs acknowledging that it happens.

My mum stayed at home and absolutely facilitated my dad (who I’m sure believes he did it all off his own back), however, she also ensured that she made it clear that she didn’t want that life for me. That I should never do work around the home because I’m a woman.

To be fair, I’m a fairly extreme case, but I am facilitated by my husband. He does the shopping and the cleaning, he makes the lunches and ensures that I don’t have to think about any of the “house stuff”. He also works full time.

That means I can focus entirely on my work, which I love and am very successful at. It also means that our two boys have grown up not expecting a woman to do the “house stuff” and they are very self sufficient.

We need to bring up a generation of men who don’t expect things to be done for them by a woman. (By “we” I mean parents, not mothers).

atlantic- from the OPs opening post
"facilitated by women: wives who don't work or who work part time "

It's clear she is not talking about women who work full time.

In my opinion if women who work part time want to "facilitate" their men, then it's a relationship issue.

Melody get a grip
Got one, ta. Quite a firm one too.

Why are you goading me and those on this thread?
Just asked a couple of questions. It is permitted.

I've just written what I want below and that list is just a small list. But it's definitely not someone to facilitate me

You want other people to change their life choices and professional choices - so that your frustration is assuaged. Why should they?

Sorry that should say l should never do work around the home simply because I’m a woman.

Dh and I both work ft, although I earn more money. I think we've stuck a balance of facilitating each other to do our jobs. We each pick up the slack when the other one is busy (tbh he does most of everything house related during term time and I only really have to think about the household stuff during school holidays).

But I am very unusual in this set up, I know very few people who manage to share this stuff so well. I work in a pretty big school with over 100 teachers, about 80 of them are women. The vast majority of the women go part time when they have small children (there are 3 of us who have children but have never been part time). Not a single man has gone part time when their children are small. Every head of department or higher who has children also has a stay at home spouse (mostly sahm, but there are 2 sahds to older children).

Most of my friends, and even acquaintances, facilitate their husbands in the way that's been described on this thread. The husband doesn't worry about childcare, his wife has it covered. The house is clean because they cleaning fairies did it (they don't even notice the house is clean, they only notice when it stops being clean). These aren't all sahms, most of them work in professional jobs, teachers, police officers, nurses, etc yet their husbands are still facilitated because it's the children who end up suffering if things don't get done.

speakout

True the OP said SAHM and part-timers. But I do feel the thread applies to me because I have reduced my earning potential to take on jobs for the family but DH hasn't.

Of course it's all logical in paper. Cos DH has always earned more than me (even pre DC) but still, I've made the sacrifice he hasn't.

Though when we were talking about this thread he said that money isn't the only contribution one can make to the family and I think that's true.

speakout" and melody* can't you see that the personal is political and that wanting changes in the overarching system is a good thing? Sorry but it's more than just a relationship issue if individual choices end up creating a system of power for men.

This is Feminist Chat so when you drop in good to understand general principles of feminism.

This is Feminist Chat so when you drop in good to understand general principles of feminism

So it's even more surprising to see such a patronising attitude.