UK submission to UN - "whatabout the pregnant men?"

[pisacake]

The text as proposed by the UN:

"Although States parties may adopt measures designed to regulate terminations of pregnancy, such measures must not result in violation of the right to life of a pregnant woman or her other rights under the Covenant, including the prohibition against cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment or punishment. . Thus, any legal restrictions on the ability of women to seek abortion must not, inter alia, jeopardize their lives or subject them to physical or mental pain or suffering which violates article 7. States parties must provide safe access to abortion to protect the life and health of pregnant women, and in situations in which carrying a pregnancy to term would cause the woman substantial pain or suffering,"

and continues in similar vein

The UK's submission:
www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBodies/CCPR/GCArticle6/UnitedKingdom.pdf

" We note that in using the term “pregnant woman” the Committee may be inadvertently restricting the application of this paragraph to exclude transgender people who have given birth; this has happened in two recent cases in the UK."

This is rather confusing language. If they are not, in the context of that sentence, 'pregnant women', then surely the appropriate sentence, by elimination, is 'pregnant men' "exclude transgender men who have given birth; this has happened in two recent cases in the UK.""

Sunkisses

There is also a short thread called "Pregnant People". Text of article in there I think.

Tbh in an legal document I'm sure all terms will be defined.

Don’t hold your breath. In the c-16 bill gender was never defined. Gender identity, gender expression, yes. Not gender.

All the official definitions I have seen of gender say it is social expectations of behaviour and appearance. And then go on to apply an entirely, unspecified and different meaning to it when it comes to the law.

This does raise interesting questions. Surely if you are indeed a man you wouldn't get pregnant in the same way that you wouldn't wear bras. Pregnancy and childbirth I just such a feminine thing that it seems to exclude all masculinity. Certainly if we are talking from a purely gendered perspective pregnancy is about as feminised as things get.

I’d really like to know what the perspectives are of trans men who have been pregnant. Surely they are able to recognise the unique (and possibly almost privileged?) position they’re in to be able to both live as a man and still choose to have a child (I’m not sure it’s possible for trans women? Unless they freeze their sperm?) when you’re pregnant you are generally more bothered about a healthy baby and what your next snack is and don’t really have the energy to get annoyed about the odd word. Surely?

I hate the idea of being a pregnant female or person; it feels like baby factory type talk.

I’m convinced that it’s not transmen who are making a fuss. All two of them. It’s transwomen. The men.

Removing biological descriptions from what it means to be a woman, will benefit transwomen.

That’s why we are cis, not women. Whilst transwomen are women.

They want to swap everything to do with women to be applied to them, whilst we are the outliers. Using transmen for their agenda is just more of the same old shit.

"when you’re pregnant you are generally more bothered about a healthy baby and what your next snack is and don’t really have the energy to get annoyed about the odd word. Surely?"
Sorry to be a pedant- but no. The expectation should be that pregnant women are perfectly capable of doing whatever they need to do, including being annoyed about words. Otherwise we run the risk of deciding they can't do their jobs properly.

Bang. @Datun, you've totally hit the nail on the head. This is all about erasing women, and erasing women's biological experience of being women.

Also, how the heck can you 'dysphoric' and think you are a man if your uterus is quite literally growing a human being?! I guess the trans females having babies opt to have c/s too, or they'd have to acknowledge a baby coming out of their literal vagina!

I found it interesting that this was trending as a Twitter Moment and most of the tweets in the Moment were questioning it.

This is just ridiculous

If only as much thought was put onto how to not piss off women as it is into wording things to avoid pissing off everyone else.

I often wonder why a TIF would go through with a pregnancy - I can't think of anything more likely to trigger their dysphoria.

I agree OP this is bullshit and I hope the UK is laughed and ignored.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

I often wonder why a TIF would go through with a pregnancy - I can't think of anything more likely to trigger their dysphoria.

I agree it’s odd, which is why it’s only happened twice in the UK.

Nonetheless, there’s plainly a motive to change language to accommodate two people.

And like everything else in this ideology, it’s coming from men.

The obvious solution would be to refrain from triggering the actual transman, in person, for the duration of their pregnancy. That’s it.

If you’re giving somebody a nose job, I think most surgeons manage to refrain from referring to it as a huge nose, or whatever, ffs.

According to today's Guardian, the Foreign Office says that it has not asked for the term "pregnant women" to be replaced with "pregnant people". However, the UK government is saying that "it has lobbied for the rights of transgender people to be protected in a UN treaty" (the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights). Presumably, this treaty will be enshrined in UK law.

Brendan O'Neill (Spectator) thinks the Foreign Office have reversed after all the fuss. I'd love to see the actual submission from them!

His is a very good article and well worth sharing:

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/10/the-word-woman-is-being-erased-from-public-life/

If these fuckwits want to decide that pregnant woman should be replaced by pregnant person, you also can’t say son, daughter, mother, father, grandmother, grandfather, niece, nephew, uncle, aunt, sister, brother.

Because two women, who want to escape detrimental gender stereotypes, identify as men.

Nah mate. It’s not women are pushing this. It’s cross dressing fetishist MEN.

And if women no longer exist who the fuck are they trying to be

They are trying to be women. And women are cis. If this is allowed to go on, I guarantee that cis women will be a synonym for dog shit.

No purpose, no voice, no need.

Welcome to Gilead.

As a kind of light relief...

Loose Women had a poll on this and tweeted about it. I thoroughly enjoyed the replies.

But then isn't that admitting that they aren't women as they can only he women when actual women are relabelled "ciswomen" and only when the word woman cab actually be used at all and they haven't pc'd themselves out of existence.

Oh bravo Brendan O'Neill! That's a great article. It's what we've been saying for yonks,, but it's such a relief to see a different perspective in the media.

I must have missed all of the publicity about changing the wording for prostate and testicular cancer to be more inclusive.

Sorry, wrong thread

at this comment on the Brendan O'Neill article.

Selma - What's the general thrust of the comments? I didn't want to give them my email (and be spammed endlessly) so I'm asking a CF reportage favour.

They all agree with Brendan though -predictably for the Spectator - some of them blame feminism

The responses to that poll on twitter

When is the programme being re-named? I mean obviously it needs to be ‘loose people’.

plus a chance to be aroused by other unrelated matters:
No. I am so tired of the PC brigade having it all their own way. What next? Calling Hallowe'en a "a ghost festival"?! 👎😂😂😂

and if you think its your god given right to carry children, do so. But men have vaginas Hannah, it's 2017. which is from a person pretending to be a van, who may or may not be trolling

Anyway I see Shon Faye 's been honest
Thing about the absurd manufactured outrage over 'pregnant people' is that its a discussion which genuinely doesnt concern trans women

But it concerns women and aren't trans women, women?