Second Coren disappointment of the weekend

[hipsterfun]

Victoria reinforces sexist ideas to undermine female athletes

and this is no different from asymmetric bars.

scrabbler3
There are men who will get off to women doing anything.
That's their issue, not the issue of women who train hard in their chosen field.

People on about kids doing it. This girl auditioned on pole. She's bloody awesome and fearless! I wonder when she started gymnastics to get that good.

If anyone seriously thinks seeing a girl flip and do tricks like that is sexual then they have a problem. It's fun and acrobatic.

Well, if it's not even remotely icky then why would it be an issue if children start doing it as soon as they are old enough?

That video is of circus type pole dancing and isn't the same as the kind of dancing shown in the OPs video.

I'm not disputing the physical skill, but the undeniable link with the sex industry makes it a bit icky for the Olympics, and women's sport as a whole. Aren't we trying to escape the woman as sex object shite? And I think the same about the beach volleyball debacle as well.

So nobody would have the slightest issue with a pole dancing club for school age girls. I find that utterly, utterly depressing.

Actually- if that child is as young as she looks, then I do think that routine is inappropriate. As is her outfit.

Many of the moves are similar in both videos.
The OP's video is still more strength and skill than exotic pole with lots of shake your bum writhing on the floor moments.

Just like dancing can be sexy, romantic, acrobatic etc so can pole. If you think about dance there is ballet, street, lyrical, latin, ballroom, jazz etc. With pole there are different styles.
I wouldn't have a child do burlesque but I did salsa and jazz as a child at dance.
I wouldn't have a child do the suggestive pole stuff, but would have zero issue with them wanting to do the acro stuff.

She's 8 i think Betrand.

But why is it inappropriate?
My dance and gymnastics leotards showed that much and thry weren't sexual in the slightest.
Equally, why is the routine inappropriate?
She does some splits and straddles? So do most dancers and gymnasts.
It is a child having fun doing flips and tricks.

I loved climbing things as a child (which is probably why i loved the bars and beam in gymnastics). I'd have had a whale of a time doing that if it was around.

It's a bloody pole. She's wearing a bikini. She's 8 years old and she is dancing round a pole in a bikini. If you can't see anything inappropriate in that then, in a classic phrase, I feel a bit sorry for you.

However much you like and approve of pole dancing for 'core fitness' or whatever, I haven't seen a single convincing defence of it for kids. If it's not ok for them, then ladies who like to do it for fitness then knock yourselves out, but it's still not ok for the Olympics.

We differ if you see that as being sexual or inappropriate.
I see a child wearing the sane sort of crop top and skirt/pant bottoms that dancers wear or the tankinis girls wear on holiday.

I see a child doing acrobatics and couldn't care less if the bar is horizontal like gymnastics or vertical.

The direction of the bar doesn't suddenly make one inappropriate.

Now if she was doing some kind of sexy stripper dance THEN i woukd agree it would be inappropriate. But that clip shows a highly talented acrobat having fun

Oh come on, of course the direction of the bar makes a difference. You're being disingenuous now. You can't argue for youngsters doing pole dancing and thank fuck for that

It doesn't.
What makes a difference is the content of the routine.

A sexy, suggestive routine would be absolutely inappropriate and I would be first to say so.

Some acrobatic tricks? I can't get worked up over that.

There are some pretty committed verbal acrobatics on this thread, for sure

Does a middle aged mother of 2 find that young girl's pole dancing sexually stimulating? Nope.

Do I think there is a small but frighteningly significant section of society that does ? You betcha

Do I think it's a good idea for this stuff to be further and further made mainstream and normalised ? Fuck, no

My kid signed up to a dance class that turned out to be cheerleading by another name.
I hate the concept of cheerleading no matter how fun and athletic.
Just stick to gymnastics.

So then don't have competitions or performances under a certain age because I do agree some creepy people in society would find it sexually attractive. My caution would be that tbose people would probably view any number of other things surrounding children in that disturbing way.

I know some places that do aerial classes for children. They do a mix of pole, hoop, trapeze and aerial silks in a child friendly setting. I would have zero issue letting my child attend those classes

That video is of circus type pole dancing and isn't the same as the kind of dancing shown in the OPs video

It is a circus pole. It is the sort of stuff I have been banging on about throughout this thread. Boys and men do it too. The reservation I have about that video is the costume- a full, low cut , leotard would have been more appropriate.

Well, if it's not even remotely icky then why would it be an issue if children start doing it as soon as they are old enough?

I imagine the Russian State Circus and Chinese State Circus start boys and girls at an early age.

Goodness knows I'm as opposed to porn, strip clubs as most posters on here but some of you seem unable to distinguish the difference between "pole dancing" and acrobatics/ gymnastics using a pole.

The point is sailing right over your head, Lass despite your "banging on"

I can tell the difference. You can tell the difference.

Would I expose myself or my child to the (depressingly tenacious) element that wilfully or stupidly can not ?

No

Hence my dogged opposition to calls to normalise this shit. The only people who benefit from that are the pervs, no matter how lofty our own aspirations to reclaim stuff from the sex industry are

I loved climbing things as a child

My ds's love climbing things. I thought I might take them to a climbing wall when they're a bit older. Don't really see the link to pole dancing?

What anyfucker said.

The point is sailing right over your head, Lass despite your "banging on"

Well I won the bet with myself that you would be along to tell me how thick I am.

I would not put a child on stage like that but then I would not put a child into television talent competition.

But if you think the tremendous feats that circus acrobats, men and women, perform on this type of equipment should be stopped because a small minority of wrong uns take it the wrong way then I wonder what else you would like to discourage- ballet ?contemporary dance? gymnastics generally?

If you are simply going to lie in wait just to take my comments personally is there any point in engaging further ?

Perhaps if you can read my mind so well, answer for me and I can get some shut eye which is what I should be doing

Nobody told you you were thick. A lot of people on here know that you definitely are not that. You know however that it's not a few 'wrong uns' that would see a pole dancing performance as something dodgy. That's why there are not many parents who woukd see it as a valid sport for their children, especially for girls. Which makes it untenable.

Victoria Coren is only where she is through nepotism and I used to find her really irritating.
She has, however, made a fairly good fist of growing into the role she was handed on a plate and I agree with her sentiments on this.
There are loads of things that are physically demanding. Porn actors are often described as sexual athletes. Doesn’t mean fitting four cocks into three orifices should be an Olympic sport though.

Hence my dogged opposition to calls to normalise this shit. The only people who benefit from that are the pervs, no matter how lofty our own aspirations to reclaim stuff from the sex industry are

Pole has already been reclaimed but women tend not to talk about it. I wonder why.