Second Coren disappointment of the weekend

[hipsterfun]

Victoria reinforces sexist ideas to undermine female athletes

and this is no different from asymmetric bars.

Street dance/hip hop can be fun and for fitness and yet twerking is a sexy move. I wouldn't argue all hip hop dance is damaging to women because some women slut drop and twerk.
This is a bit disingenuous. Pole dancing started off being all about sex and now some people do it for fitness. Street dance is dance with some provocative moves.
And "slut drop"? Really? On the feminist board too. It's just offensive

Adults should have the choice what sort of pole they want to do.
Yes.
That doesn't mean children should be doing anything other than gymnastics on the pole
Yes.

I don't see what is so difficult to understand.
Pole is a discipline. It can be done in different styles. Hardly a challenging idea to get heads around.

QuentinSummers - that is what it is called. When studios and dances have anotjer word to call a.move then i'll use it.
There's another move in a different aerial discipline called the iron fanny. I'll be honest it will hurt men considerably more. But you know what, that's its name.

Can see where this is going though as women’s sport is no longer women’s sport it’s also men who claim that they too are women and judging by how powerful their lobby is and how so many transwomen are caricatures ofhigly sexualisedwomen this so called sport will no doubt be in the Olympics soon
And this has what to do with a discussion about pole?

The point where an interesting discussion suddenly (& randomly) shifts to a trans discussion on MN is the point where it's obvious that it's headinh downhill.
I have a number of issues with the trans lobby but it has zero relevance to a discussion about women and pole.

The trans agenda has fuck all to do with this discussion but mumsnet is obsessed with it so it's only a matter of time before someone brought it up.

The discussion is about the pole becoming a sport women sport sport is no longer just women’s sport

I believe the pole performance is highly sexualised as is the prominent trans movement that has lobbied for transwomen to be allowed to participate in women’s sports so yes for myself there is a connection as there always is now in regards to issues regarding women

Maisy your whole arguments rests on this very clear distinction between sexy pole and good clean fun pole that you hope we are all intelligent enough to understand.

I'm afraid that I'm not that intelligent . The video of the 8 year old you posted as a demonstration of your point looked to me (and at least one other pp) extremely sexualised. I'm also pretty sure that there are a good number of sleazy men out there at least as confused by all this as I am.

WhatWouldGenghisDo
Because there is a difference. Like it or not, there is. Fact.

That's why there are separate classes for sexy pole. So people who WANT to do exotic pole can train in it.

There may be stigma attached to pole and I will accept that. But I won't accept people telling me a discipline I do with many other women (and men!) is sexual and inappropriate just because it is done in strip clubs. As other posters have said, aerial is a discipline beyond strip clubs.

There is a difference betwren pole fitness, pole flow, lyrical pole, acro pole, sexy pole etc. I'm getting bored of pointing this out to people who've never so much as stepped foot in an aerial studio.

OK.

Please will someone post a link to a video of a woman doing a completely unsexualised pole routine?

And I have spent more time than I care to remember in an aerial studio.

• i don't need to 'know better'. I enjoy my fitness.
• it only sexualises children if you want to give sexualised routines
• some studios do youth aerial classes so yoy can bring a child
• we have to have our hair up for training. Whether our hair is up or down for performance ls has nothing to do qith how sexualised it is. I have my hair down today, does that make my walk sexualised? If there is lota of hair flipping etc in a provocative manner thej THAT is what is sexualised, not someone having hair down because it looks nicw and feela awesome in some inverts.
• there are formalised moves. That is why you can move studio to studio and a fireman spin is a fireman spin, an inside leg hang is an inside leg hand, a crucifix is a crucifix, a hand spring is a hand spring.

Nobody is denying pole has (and is) present in strip clubs.
We are pointing out that strip club pole is different to pole fitness.

I could upload the videos people put from my class last week (obv not because MN is anonymous). Nothing sexual in the slightest.

Just to clarify- "aerial" does not automatically include pole.

"I could upload the videos people put from my class last week (obv not because MN is anonymous). Nothing sexual in the slightest."
So it should be easy for you to just quickly link to a completely non sexualised routine on YouTube then?

Pole has already been reclaimed but women tend not to talk about it. I wonder why

Because it's bullshit! I just googled pole dancing classes in my area, and what I get is images of women in underwear and stripper stilettos in cubs called "flirty fitness" and the like.
You're going to have to reclaim it a lot harder.

I'm amazed this has come back up on MN.

I thought all that pole dancing and burlesque is empowering stuff fell out of fashion about five years ago.

I am sorry if this has been posted and i missed it

But one of my favourite lines from a film features a 'playa' saying to a shy friend

'Men won when they managed to convince women that pole dancing is exercise'

(It can be incredibly athletic and must be a great workout , buuuuut...)

I'm amazed this has come back up on MN.

I can only apologise for bringing up again (I wasn’t aware a final decision had been made) and for having unfashionable thoughts.

About "slut drop":
that is what it is called. When studios and dances have anotjer word to call a.move then i'll use it.
That is no justification for using sexist language.

BrandNewHouse
I have no issue with people saying they don't think it should be an olympic event. I view it in thr same style as figure skating and gymnastics but totally respect people may have a different view (e.g. too much like dance and things like dance and rhythmic gymnastics should be considered performamce genres not sport)

My issue is with people telling me that pole classes are sexual when people who have done it are saying that it is not unless you opt for classes in exotic pole.

In terms if what makes it sexual, it's the performance style. Eg. Wiggling hips, lota of gyrating, dry hunping the floor (no idea if there is a name for that!), dramatic hair flicking, obviously sexy costumes (as opposed to crop top and shorts/bikini bottoms). I've seen people on youtube do amazingly sexy routines with moves we do in class but it's the way they perform that makes it sexy rather than the move itself in my opinion.

Men won when they managed to convince women that pole dancing is exercise
Not sure on that one. I have never done a full routine because I focua more on strength moves. I have never and probably never would do a pole performance for DH either. I'm not game for that. I do it for me and my fitness. It makes me feel confident because of what my body can do now that it couldn't before. To me (other women may disagree) putting a show on for DH underminea my hard work that I have done for me and reduces my training to sone silly sex game. Thankfully, he has never asked. He has seen videos of moves & combinations and he is always like 'that's good. How the fuck are you staying on there!'

BertrandRussell
I've seen quite a few. There's a great one to Apologise by One republic which I'd love to br able to do (but i lack the grace required). The Dragonfly brand also posts some great pole workout videos.

At all studios I know aerial includes:
Pole
Hoop/lyra
Aerial silks / hamock / tri fly
Pole silks (mix of pole and aerial silks)
Trapeze

Often people who do one discipline fir fitness also do another. I do 3 of them.

Marion crampe was on the Ellen show recently. Not a hair flick to be seen

Please will someone post a link to a video of a woman doing a completely unsexualised pole routine?

I did - right at the beginning. If anyone thinks this is sexualised it is you who has a big problem; not the performer or the audience.

Non sexual pole videos: I've put a range in there from pole workouts, lyrical pole, contemporary pole, men doing pole, women's classes etc.

(love the apologise one) (I love this routine too)

Sexy pole videos

I hope that shows the range of disciplines within pole.

Can it be sexy? Yes.
Is it always sexy? No.

And Marion Crampe is awesome. Absolute goals. She is so strong and graceful.

Absolute goals.

Is this pole dancing terminology? What does it mean?

I think it's yoof speak. Means that it's terribly impressive and achieving what MaisyPops would like to achieve too. I think.