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Giles Coren on Weinstein and what a terrible shame it is that women have to power to ruin a sex pest's career

235 replies

HeyRoly · 20/10/2017 23:12

Twitter thread and screenshots for those not on Twitter.

twitter.com/jonathanshainin/status/921424322455068673

I have to say I'm biased and I've always loathed Coren, but holy fucking shit...

Giles Coren on Weinstein and what a terrible shame it is that women have to power to ruin a sex pest's career
Giles Coren on Weinstein and what a terrible shame it is that women have to power to ruin a sex pest's career
Giles Coren on Weinstein and what a terrible shame it is that women have to power to ruin a sex pest's career
OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 21/10/2017 10:21

""Women have suffered sexual microaggressions (and macro ones) at the hands of men for thousands of years. All of them, from what I can make out, by all of us. And I don’t want to run the slightest risk of being seen to have any part in any of it any more."

I don't have an issue with this. In a different context it might be quite a powerful statement and one I wish more men would make. However, when surrounded by all the "possiblys" and "probablys" and "maybes"..........

nauticant · 21/10/2017 10:32

And the self-pity. Don't forget the self-pity.

WinchestersInATardis · 21/10/2017 10:37

Yeah, the full thing is still awful. He won't smile back at a woman who smiles at him in case it's misconstrued? And he's going to stop telling jokes because he likes it when women laugh?
Good lord.
Consent is not that difficult to understand.
Although, he's right about one thing. If he genuinely is too dim to figure out where the boundary lies between flirting and sexual harassment Hmm, he probably shouldn't be flirting.

ricecakeseverywhere · 21/10/2017 10:39

I think a LOT of men don't know the boundary though. It really would be better for them to stop ALL workplace flirting.

nauticant · 21/10/2017 10:43

If you want to put this into perspective, here's what Coren had to say about his daughter:

twitter.com/dannyaharrison/status/921669987491819520

I post that still wondering if it's fake and I've been taken for a mug.

LonginesPrime · 21/10/2017 10:45

Aside from anything else (like ‘just touching’ - WTF?), how is it a huge revelation that you don’t sign off work emails with kisses?

How the fuck has it taken him this long to work that out???

SophoclesTheFox · 21/10/2017 10:49

I'd be quite interested in what any female co-workers of Giles would say about what he's like to work with. On the basis of this article, one can only imagine...

PricklyBall · 21/10/2017 10:49

Surely that twitter quote has to be a fake?

But the original article - yuck. As Winchester says if you can't work out the difference between flirting and harrassment - just don't do it.

(Someone linked on another thread to a piece by a male American stand up - basically his line was "Would you, as a man, feel comfortable if another man said this to you while you were both in prison? If not, don't say it!")

LonginesPrime · 21/10/2017 10:49

Wow, nauticant, I know what you mean - that’s do disturbing it can’t be real, surely?

BertrandRussell · 21/10/2017 10:54

"Someone linked on another thread to a piece by a male American stand up - basically his line was "Would you, as a man, feel comfortable if another man said this to you while you were both in prison? If not, don't say it!"

I don't get the prison thing. If you wouldn't do it to a man or say it to a man, don't do it or say it to a woman. Simple.

SuburbanRhonda · 21/10/2017 10:57

And I don’t want to run the slightest risk of being seen to have any part in any of it any more.

I do have a problem with this. What he should be saying is, “I don’t want to have any part in it any more.”

Otherwise, as popchyk says, it shows that all he cares about it how he appears to other people, not the fact he’s behaving badly towards women.

PricklyBall · 21/10/2017 10:57

i think the idea of the prison thing is to bring home to men the power imbalance. Imagine yourself in a situation with someone physically stronger than you, where you cannot get away, and where the authorities probably won't give a shit. Because this for many women is everyday life, and for men, they float through life in this protective bubble of never really feeling that physically threatened (barring odd occasions like walking into the wrong pub on match day - the idea that women might feel that level of high alert simply walking across a supermarket car park at 5pm on a winter's night just doesn't enter their consciousness).

AnyFucker · 21/10/2017 11:15

And then I sit and stare at her, like the dippiest lover, not talking, transfixed by her beauty. Unable quite to drink it all in. Missing heartbeats at the way she gazes out at the sea through her long, curling lashes while slurping Coke through her pursed, plump little lips.

And doing this I realise how being on holiday with my tiny daughter is the most insanely romantic holiday, in some ways even the sexiest holiday, that I’ve ever had.

He got some flak for this too

TrickOrRuddyTreat · 21/10/2017 11:16

Well that article is seriously shit isn't it? Giles, in case you ever read this thread, here are some notes for you:

  1. Referring to sexual assault as 'just touching' is abhorrent. There are limited situations where touching a woman's breasts, genitals or arse is acceptable and there are exactly no situations where it is acceptable to do so without consent.
  2. Cornering a woman, who is in effect an employee, in a hotel room while wearing a bathrobe and demanding a massage is not wrokplace flirting, it is sexual harassment. If you are doing this (or anything vaguely like it) then yes, you should be sacked and your career ruined.
  3. No woman has ever complained about a man just smiling at her in the street.
  4. Not one single man in the history of existence has ever been jailed for 'flirting'. Most men who are guilty of sexual harassment, sexual assault or rape are not jailed and those behavious are actually illegal whereas flirting is not.
  5. From a woman's perspective the difference between flirting and sexual harassment is the behaviour itself and not how attractive/young the man is. You can be old and ugly and be flirting just as you can be young and attractive and a rapist.
  6. Putting kisses on emails is not sexual harassment but it is unprofessional, surely that's the best reason to stop doing it? The last and most important point is this:
  7. If you are unable to differentiate acceptable behaviour from unacceptable behaviour, or you find yourself incapable of telling when a woman is uncomfortable with your behaviour then try this: BEHAVE TOWARDS HER THE SAME WAY YOU WOULD A MAN.
Popchyk · 21/10/2017 11:19

SuburbanRhonda, yes, that is what I was trying (and failing) to get across.

If he is sexually aggressive towards women, he is saying that he doesn't want to suffer the negative consequences of that (reputation, career).

He is not actually concerned that the women themselves have to suffer from his sexual aggression in the first place.

He is presenting himself as the victim of something that he chooses to do, whilst entirely ignoring the actual impact on the innocent person concerned.

Quite a feat.

LonginesPrime · 21/10/2017 11:39

With the romantic DD article and this, it very much sounds like he genuinely has no self-awareness.

It’s very odd to write public articles saying ‘oh, touching women without their consent isn’t appropriate now - who knew?’ Well, actually, Giles, everyone else knew that..

So I’d say he clearly has very little understanding of the issues he’s writing about. Perhaps the Weinstein thing has made him realise that he’s guilty of sexual harassment too and he wants to garner some advance support because he’s worried about who might speak out against him.

BertrandRussell · 21/10/2017 11:41

Popchyk-I absolutely agree. In the context of the rest of the article it is grim. I suppose what I was trying to say is that I wish more men would show commitment- in a "justice done and seen to be done" way.

whiskyowl · 21/10/2017 11:47

The staggering thing about that article is the idea that women would WANT to be sexually harassed or assaulted by a good-looking, young guy (presumably it would automatically be consensual as we're such air-heads that we can't help ourselves around sexy alpha males), but that it suddenly becomes unacceptable when the guy is ugly and older.

Oddly enough, when I was younger, good-looking guys suddenly become highly UNattractive when they are suddenly groping your butt unasked. Because there's nothing less sexy than a sudden abject sense of discomfort, indignity and fear - Who is this guy, why is he touching me, am I safe?

Coren is so fundamentally stupid and misguided.

AnyFucker · 21/10/2017 11:53

Longines when I see stuff written like this, it does make me wonder if there is some "advance defence" going on, for sure

BertrandRussell · 21/10/2017 11:56

And this constant refrain of "when does flirting turn into harassment" as if that is somehow really, really difficult.. It's like the people who winge about political correctness - "You can't say anything nowadays......"

SophoclesTheFox · 21/10/2017 12:01

I'm just surprised Giles didn't manage to shoehorn in the old trope of not being allowed to hold doors open for women without being shouted at by angry harridans. It's another harrowing example of the many, many ways that the world is so difficult for the modern gentleman. What is a chap to do when he's not allowed to smile at the fillies any more?

And YY to how concerned he is about how it makes him look, not about how it makes women feel. He's missed the point so comprehensively on every level it's actually quite impressive.

DJBaggySmallpox · 21/10/2017 12:04

I stood up to the office wolf and never fucking heard the last of it. Literally every comment after that alluded to the fact I wasn't there to be chatted up. It was an object lesson to other women in the office to shut up and put up.
Men like this lack the ability to detect or use nuance, or at least pretend they do so as to make women put up with their shit.

ElspethFlashman · 21/10/2017 12:14

His wife is awesome. I follow her on Instagram and she's funny and V V honest.

However I often do not know how she puts up with him. He seems quite hard to live with as he has verbal diarrhoea and expresses every thought in his head, no matter how fucking idiotic. She seems to spend most of her time rolling her eyes at him and calling him an idiot.

But one thing that stayed with me is on her old blog Recipe Rifle or whatever, she said that during an argument he called her fat. She had two babies during this time. I remember that whenever I see him. I doubt she's ever been above a size 12 in her life.

QuentinSummers · 21/10/2017 12:24

And this constant refrain of "when does flirting turn into harassment" as if that is somehow really, really difficult
I just see this as them getting their defence in early. Same as the whole "grey areas" that people like to go on about with rape.
Let's face it, it suits men to believe there are scenarios where you could "accidentally" harass someone. Either because it means they don't have to face up to how many men are predators (if they are decent men). Or because it enables them to BE predators.
I'm so fucking sick of the whole thing.