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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

The Bluestocking is open for business

999 replies

PricklyBall · 16/10/2017 21:02

I've scrolled back a few pages and I can't even find the last pub thread.

So I've taken the beer towels off the pumps, tapped a new barrel, polished the glasses, fed the goat and applied brasso to the patriarchy busting canon.

Come and join me - all tastes catered for - beer, gin, wine, cocktails, coffee and a nice cup of tea.

OP posts:
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15
Somerville · 20/10/2017 22:45

Bringing up modern equivalences might help him to see the holes in his argument too. Why didn't Obama sort out racism for good while he was President? Why won't Prince Charles, when he ascends to the throne, end man-made climate change?

Ereshkigal · 20/10/2017 22:56

I would keep talking to him about it Rufus. With lots and lots of other examples as mentioned. I would keep going and going until he never wanted to talk about it again Grin

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 20/10/2017 23:09

He has forgotten it all anyway Sad

In between working do hard he dozes off from 9pm and the wine last night he cant remember a thing

I am going to wait til he wakes up and read him your answers...i might prod him til he wakes up

Ereshkigal · 20/10/2017 23:11

Haha I would Rufus SmileGrin

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 20/10/2017 23:17

He is now ranting about climate change...which doesnt exist

He also said that those things were no thanks to victoria

Do you want me to smack him for you...

And honestly he is just the nicest bloke...normally Hmm

He may be on a wind up now...its hard to tell whether he is being stupid cos he thinks its funny....or he is being stupid to lull me into a false state of security or he is actually stupid

QuentinSummers · 20/10/2017 23:30

rufus my DH thinks I'm a bigot cos of the trans thing, it's infuriating.....
You might also point out that men wrote the history books and overlook women's contribution all the time.
So we can't even really know what Elizabeth 1st did for women because it's all about the menz.
I read David Starkeys 6 wives of Henry 8th and it actually barely mentioned the wives Angry
I have talked about this quite a lot with a friend of mine and it is amazing how many people have amazing strong women in their family history, but the written history/what's taught in school is all about men.
I went to a work thing where a presenter started talking about herstory in her talk and I had to hug her afterwards.
Huh
Sorry for the rant everyone

PS I did tell management at work about the incident and they were amazing so that's helped a lot. Male managers were horrified whereas most women accept it's a thing thst happens which is interesting...

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 20/10/2017 23:36

We are usually on the same page...and we are on women's rights

He's just being a twat

Re henrys wives, i have little hanging peg type dolls i put out at Christmas . The 6 wives and elizabeth

My dad was watching me put them up and when i showed him the figures he said 'oooh i like elizabeth she was the only one who did anything'

Shock welll!!! I went right off on one about katherine parr being the first queen to write a book and anne changing the landscape of British religion and katherine aragon saving england from the scots...well attacking the scots...well something to do with the scots

NoLoveofMine · 20/10/2017 23:37

Very true about history Quentin. It's so frustrating women's contributions to so much are written out of history, even in terms of so many women who excelled and did such incredible work not widely known about, in fields many still wrongly think are preserves of men in part due to not being aware of such women; Ada Lovelace, Rosalind Franklin, Cecilia Payne-Gaposchkin, Amy Johnson, Helen Sharman, to name just very few of them. This extends to the women who continue to do great work in various fields not being visible enough to girls I don't think, though this could be going into the realms of another subject. I completely agree about the airbrushing of so many of the huge contributions of women from history.

I'm glad to hear your work management have been supportive regarding that incident and that it's been taken seriously.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 20/10/2017 23:38

quentin

I was in an argument with ds1 about the suffragettes

I said history is written by the victors and men have been the victors

And he raced upstairs to look at his history text books...well thank god!!! All his books were written by men Grin

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 20/10/2017 23:40

I read an interesting book about mary bolyen

But it was full of ''we dont know for definite' ' there are no records to show' ' no one knows etc

The guesswork was impressive though

QuentinSummers · 20/10/2017 23:54

My favourite historical fiction book is Katherine by Anya Seton and she did some very detailed notes which were fascinating.
Katherine of Aragon was a kick ass woman, very galling her legacy is as "wife number 1" to the infamous Henry.

CaptainWarbeck · 21/10/2017 00:02

Cocoa I enjoyed that discussion about Victoria and Elizabeth, so thank you.

I'll raise a glass to all those interesting women who did make it into the menz history books (and those who didn't).

CocoaIsGone · 21/10/2017 07:02

Thanks, CaptainSmile

I was thinking about this this morning. I hadn’t read the posts since last night, so still on the Victoria tack. (I am curious rufus what the logic is in saying that the things listed were no thanks to Victoria but she should have done more. They were only no thanks to her if one accepts the sovereign has no actual power in a parliamentary democracy, therefore what could she have done?)

Plus then I was thinking how many other issues there were in the 19th century like overcrowding, slums, disease and mortality. It was just as dangerous for women to give birth as men to go down a mine. So the day to day stuff was massively problematic and as much about poverty as sex based difference.

Then my other reflection was about the census, so the first census was in 1841. Before that there was not even an accurate record of how many men and women there were, let alone what their needs were. (Why anyone thinks going back there is a good idea, I don’t know)

Agree re unsung women of history. I was pleased to see Mary Somerville on the new RBS ten pound note yesterdaySmile

CocoaIsGone · 21/10/2017 07:05

Plus, climate change exists. If you can wear t-shirts in October, the world is getting warmer.
Brew time...

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 21/10/2017 09:35

cocoa

Well the daye before yesterday she had all the power and then yesterday she didnt!!

Honestly he is a sweetheart...just dense

And i think he agrees climate change exists just not that its completely manmade

Anyway...i agree that its galling that people think that wimen through the ages didnt do anything when the MEN who srite about history didnt write about them

Thank god for some of the female historians coming through...i like alison wier, ive just bought her jane grey book

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 21/10/2017 09:36

Oh god

That should be women...

CocoaIsGone · 21/10/2017 10:41

Thing is, there have been female historians at least since first wave feminism, and maybe as long as there has been history - so there is really no excuse for text books and bookstores to be predominantly male authors.

‘Wimmin’ is a Scots word - I understood you!

SophoclesTheFox · 21/10/2017 10:41

Hello pubgoers!

I am tired, it is raining, and I can't be arsed to do anything except sit on t'internet. I'll have a pint of Landlord please, and a veggie burger and chips. I'm at table 11.

quentin, what a horrible thing to happen. I had similar recently, at my dad's birthday party when his horrible gropey fucker of a neighbour slid his hand up my thigh when I was talking to him and my dad. And I didn't say anything because I didn't want to upset my dad, I just quietly moved away. Why didn't I just say "take your hand off my thigh, Ken"? HE should be embarrassed, not me! I wish my brain worked quicker in these situations, but mostly it just reverts to childhood training of Don't Make a Fuss In Public, and Always Be Polite To Your Elders Even If They Have Just Touched You Innapropriately. Urgh!

BertrandRussell · 21/10/2017 10:49

My dd went to an all girl's school and did no women's history at all. Even though it was an available topic for GCSE.........

CaptainWarbeck · 21/10/2017 11:27

I wish that had been a subject for GSCE where I was. I don't remember learning anything about any historical women in school. Plenty of men though.

I saw that there's a movement in response to the #metoo for men to post #itstopswithme. I like that.

CaptainWarbeck · 21/10/2017 11:28

Pint and a veggie burger fox! That's my kind of meal. I'll sit by the fire.

SophoclesTheFox · 21/10/2017 11:33

Oh, yay, there's a fire? The bluestocking is the bollocks ovaries Grin

NoLoveofMine · 21/10/2017 13:34

Thankfully my (girls') school is good at raising awareness of women in history, with regular talks given by speakers who highlight them. I think a significant problem in terms of the subject is syllabuses centre on men and largely erase women's contributions, which needs to be changed, though I think schools should also work to highlight some of the great things women have done anyway. It's so important, particularly for girls but for boys as well I think.

NoLoveofMine · 21/10/2017 13:36

I would enjoy the pint Sophocles and should probably have a vegetarian burger myself after the sizeable burger with cheese fries I revelled in stuffing my face with last night.

Popchyk · 21/10/2017 13:56

I get a bit annoyed by Who Do You Think You Are? the TV show.

Normally focuses on someone's male ancestors and their derring-do. Naff all about the female ancestors normally. Where female ancestors are mentioned in passing, they are reduced to a synopsis of their birth certificate, marriage certificate, their children's birth certificates and then their own death certificate.

I find it a bit sad really.