A bloke I know posted this on facebook...

[pigsknickers]

Actually I'm going to have to paraphrase because I can't copy & paste for some reason. Basically that he admires the brave women coming forward to accuse Harvey Weinstein, but is disappointed that "so called feminists" are trying to suggest this is a wider societal problem, because by doing so they are alienating all the great men like him who don't go around raping and abusing women. Needless to say I gave it to him with both barrels, and I felt the power of all the brilliant articulate posters on here behind me as I was doing so. I just wanted to thank you all for helping me to find the confidence and conviction to get into a public debate in this way, as I'm not sure it's something I would have done a year ago. I don't often post here, partly because I don't often have the time to properly commit to a discussion, but also because I often find someone has already articulated my thoughts better than I have. But I do lurk a lot and I wanted to say how brilliant you lot are, and how much strength this forum gives me.

It's a bit scary that he genuinely thinks he's one of the good guys, because he's never abused a woman. The bar is so, so low.

The really terrible thing is that having abused a woman wouldn’t necessarily a barrier to thinking of himself as one of the good guys. Because it’s amazing how many men who, in particular, coerce their partners into sex think of themselves as ‘the good guys’ (and even as the hard done by good guys).

Obviously I have no idea about this particular mansplainer of feminism, but it really is amazing how many men fail to recognise when their actions are problematic, misogynist and, in some cases, outright abusive.

Good for you OP. I'm not on FB and am very thankful at times like these. I have seen quite a few tweets from men whining about it, including Paris Lees who is trying to make the Weinstein all about trans women one again.

Cliff I like it. I am a womanist.

And I have a definition of woman based on material reality and biology. So sue me.

Just to say I understand the points being made on this but womanism exists as a black women's movement, the term was first used by Alice Walker: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womanism

But trans women ARE women.

It's a problem alright. I will stick to strident feminist I think!

To those kinds of posts, I always reply something like: "You can't imagine how grateful women are to have a man explain to us how to do feminism properly."

Indeed Quentin.

Just to pick up one on thing. Feminism (or at least my understanding of it) has nothing to do with gender, therefore can't be about gender equality. I couldn't identify out of sex discrimination, nor could I identify out of sexual assault and harrassment.

But yes, I do love when men arrive to educate us poor ladies about feminism and how we are doing it wrong. My poor little lady brain can't cope with the concept.

Thanks for the support everyone. I've engaged with this dickhead and his horrible friends a bit too much over the last few days, to the point where I've had to hide the thread as the rank misogyny and arrogance was really starting to upset me. Whenever big stories of sexual abuse break in the media it always brings back memories of the abuse I've suffered myself, as I know it does for many women, and I've let it get to me a bit much this time. Happily, when I got home my partner recounted an anecdote that showed me he really does "get it" (completely unrelated, I hadn't told him about the facebook argument), so am feeling reassured that there are genuine male allies out there (rare though they may be)

OP, you've inspired me to challenge the "Me Neither" back slapping that's going on in my Facebook world.

Thank you!

pigsknickers

There really, really are. There are men who genuinely want to help. They may never ‘get it’ in exactly the same way that women do. But they understand and want to help.

Refuting arguments from misogynists takes time. Because you have to do your research.

Fortunately you only have to do it once. Or, each bit of it, once.

But it does require investment. But once you invest, you have it all at your fingertips. It is irrefutable.

olly

Really!!!

Thats dreadful

Apparently he's been getting messages all weekend from his brilliant feminist male friends, saying they're too scared to say anything on the subject cos they'll just get their heads bitten off. Why do they need to say anything, other than "this is really shit, what can we do to help?" Why can't they just fucking listen to us instead?? Rahhhhhhh it's so bloody infuriating!

It's utter bollocks. The men I know ( because I have NC the dodgy fuckers) are good, moral, concerned people, like everyone else you would want to have as a friend and introduce to your children

It took some time to persuade DH that the transgenderism thing was actually a threat and was real, because it seems so bonkers that no right minded person would think it was true. He gets it now but still silently thinks I'm 'over-egging' it. There are just too many cooking metaphors at my disposal when the time comes

Good for you OP. Someone posted this on another thread and I think it's a really good, succinct summary of why good men need to stand up and be counted.

Aaaand forgot the link

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/life/as-men-its-our-job-to-challenge-the-culture-that-enables-people-like-harvey-weinstein

It is great you challenged it pigsknickers (not that you should need to) and also that your partner is fully supportive, hopefully you can think about him and other men who are excellent allies (and of course all the fantastic women such as yourself fighting this culture). I'd say if his friends are "too scared to say anything" on this subject he and they should probably consider why that is and what that says about their own attitudes and thoughts, if they know it's likely to cause upset to women. Try to hide it and not engage further if you can, I know how exasperating this kind of conversation can get. Sorry to read of the abuse you've suffered as well, the most important thing is to look after your own well being

Good luck with that olly! Millicent that's a great article, and I'm going to break my facebook embargo at some point to share it - thank you.

Thank you nolove , I'm fine now I've taken a step back.

pigsknickers

I’m just going to reference another thread on here, which has a wonderful post, exactly about this problem.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3060448-Fury?watched=1&msgid=72691850#72691850

Fairyflaps post today at 12:27.

One question, just one, that might help in dealing with this issue.