Can Having Genital Preferences for Dating Mean You’re Anti-Trans?

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From Everyday Feminism - though I still reckon the site is a satire site.

everydayfeminism.com/2017/04/cissexist-say-never-date-trans/

Anyway, in summary - basically if you don't date trans folk, you are 'cissexist'.

'So if we look a little deeper into this issue, there’s the possibility of your genital preferences being at least somewhat partially informed by growing up in a cissexist society. There’s also the fact that a preference is different than saying you would never do something.'

Good point, Credulous. It’s women who’re expected to suck it up (pardon the pun) every time.

Interesting there are also no threats at all of rape or violence towards men from TAs, despite all the violence and murder of trans people coming from male violence. The punch/rape/bloody and bruise a terf rhetoric is all about women.

I suspect women need to figure out what men are doing as a group to be exempt from this and learn some skills.

I thought it was homophobic to state that sexual orientation was a preference?

I'm really surprised there isn't more of an LGB pushback against this trans rhetoric.

'Genital preference' sounds awful. Still can't believe lesbians have been 'rebranded' vagina fetishists. Its just fucking mental. And yet still, widespread support and people falling over themselves to tell others that their sexuality is bigotted.

Boundary violation is at the forefront of this. It's necessary to validate and it's even preferable in terms of a lot of the male sexuality connected to this.

Validation is just another word for forcing women to do what men say. And when it has undertones of sexual connotations, it's coercion, plain and simple.

I'm sure there are loads of decent nice men out there, I know lots. And that's the point. Decent, nice men wouldn't dream of violating women's boundaries, intimidating them or making feel uncomfortable.

So what are you left with?

Exactly, sarah, looks like Bert from accounts with the halitosis and cardies his mum knits for him will be able to scream discrimination if you reject his advances from now on. He can self identify as whatever protected species he reckons will work best.
It’s like the crappiest dystopian novel you ever read come to life.

They will say, that you are allowed to not fancy someone, but it can't be because they are trans. So a lesbian not wanting to sleep with a transwoman can't say it's because she is trans. And since the penis is a female organ she can't say it's because of the penis. She shall have to go with some other reason, in that case. Which will be held up to scrutiny and torn apart, at the first opportunity.

I read an account from a transwoman who was infuriated and triggered because a bisexual woman had in fact slept with them. This transwoman had the suspicion that the bisexual female was sleeping with them in the 'I'm attracted to men side' of her sexuality, rather than the attracted to women side.

So even if this poor bisexual woman actually liked the transwoman's penis, it was wrong.

Which neatly demonstrates, that they are not the slightest bit interested in whether someone is attracted to them or not. Because even when they are, it's wrong.

I strongly suspect, that sleeping with someone who doesn't want to sleep with you is all part of the buzz.

What they're actually saying is you are allowed to not fancy someone but when it comes to me, then your right to choose disappears.

That doesn't sound like a woman speaking. It doesn't sound like a decent man speaking either. It sounds like a rapey man.

nauticant

Totally. What makes me laugh (in a hollow, unfunny way), is they think women haven't seen this sort of behaviour since forever.

They think they've got a new take on it, another way of approaching it, that this entitlement to sex isn't something that women have been batting away all their lives.

They don't realise how stultifying ordinary and predictable they are.

I think anyone who describes lesbianism or homosexuality as a "genital preference" is a raging homophobe.

(By which I mean that Everyday Sexism are raging homophobes - which we already knew - not you, OP.)

I read an account from a transwoman who was infuriated and triggered because a bisexual woman had in fact slept with them. This transwoman had the suspicion that the bisexual female was sleeping with them in the 'I'm attracted to men side' of her sexuality, rather than the attracted to women side.

Datun, I read a blogpost from Avery Edison, where she was hurt at the terrible, terrible transphobia of a woman she'd met in a gay bar, who knew she was trans, went home with her and they had great sex - but this woman's crime was not to want PIV. Which made Avery sad, because Avery's penis is not like a man's penis.

Which makes me furious just typing it out. Nobody, whether trans or not, has any right to any particular sex act. And if they push for it, knowing the other person has said "no" - well, there's a name for that.

tl;dr nothing women can do or say will ever be enough, until they have capitulated to every demand and surrendered every right to say no.

I'd imagine some people will be looking at this thread and struggling to get their heads around things that just don't seem to make sense.

The most useful thing I like to keep in mind is that there are different kinds of trans people. I think there are three main groups:

1. transsexuals who would like to have a surgical transition at some point (classic trans);

2. men rebranded from being "transvestites" (fetish trans); and

3. young people who are struggling with their identities (young confused trans).

4. tend to just want to get on with their lives and aren't mad keen on drawing attention to themselves. 2) have some distinctly dodgy people who are motivated, perhaps for sexual reasons, to remove boundaries that women sensibly want in place. 3) provide recruits for 2) in pulling down boundaries and also provide a shield to hide behind that the nasty transphobes are seeking to hurt vulnerable teenagers.

I'm a lesbian. I was closeted and married to a man for many years, because I was too terrified to come out in my late teens. I'm now in a relationship with a really lovely woman, and this 'genital preference' shit makes me furious. It's utterly regressive and fundamentally homophobic. I don't "prefer" vulvas. I am attracted to biologically female women raised as women. It's not a "preference", FFS. Sexual attraction is particular and selective and complicated. It's not about mainly drinking lattes and not being prepared to try an Earl Grey. This 'preference' rhetoric is like asking someone to stop preferring to be tall.

My experience of sleeping with a woman is utterly different from that of sleeping with men, and it's not just about vulvas. It's the whole experience of the female body. A male body is not simply differentiated from a female body by virtue of a penis and boobs. It's a totally different sensory experience. Also, I love being with a woman who grew up with all the social conditioning, pressures and gender crap, because she gets it and I don't have to explain.

FWIW, are we hearing the same 'genital preference' shit from trans men? Are there trans men activists insisting that straight women or gay men get their head round the lack of penis and learn to love vulva? Or is it, perhaps, just those who have grown up with male privilege who are putting lesbians in their place?

My DP is utterly baffled by the idea that it's transphobic to not want to have sex with someone with a dick and wonders where I'm getting this information from - she's asking if it's just extremists on the internet. Did I imagine it, or was a lesbian recently expelled from a uni LGBT society for 'transphobia' because she said she wouldn't have sex with someone with a dick?

But what if you just like penises/vaginas? If you are not attracted to women with vaginas but would date one with a penis are you still cussexist? The whole thing is just ridiculous. Not being attracted to women doesn't make me a misogynist so why do I have to accept a man without a penis? A penis is pretty essential to the kind of sex I like to have (not a fan or oral at all). So what?

ArcheryAnnie

Absolutely. And does that correlate with gender dysphoria? You're often hearing how they wouldn't want to have PIV anyway, because it's triggering.

That's what the whole term transgenderism is a minefield. There are no set opinions, attitudes, or behaviour.

Lightroom

That was Magdelen Berns. A lesbian YouTuber who analyses and deconstructs the trans-ideology. Fantastically incisive. The Edinburgh University gay society through her out.

She frequently addresses Riley J Denises YouTube videos.

We had a parent on here a while back whose daughter came out as a lesbian. She was ostracised in her school, by her peers, for saying she wouldn't sleep with a transwoman. She was vilified online, victimised and bullied.

It's incredibly common. Googling words like lesbian erasure will do it.

Gendertrender is a particularly well researched blog. Hosted by a lesbian, she is furious at the erasure of homosexuality by the trans-ideology. She takes it down, relentlessly.

Thanks, Datun.

So much of this stems from a male view of women's sexuality as being the receiver, the object of sex, not the doer, the subject. The classic "man fucks woman" - subject fucks object. It's the same outrage from straight men - "you let him fuck you, why can't I?" as TIM "lesbians" - "you use a dildo, which is the same as a dick".

There was a twitter storm a while ago when a TIM was enraged at a lesbian porn performer for calling herself a gold star lesbian who, when asked, said she would not have sex with any TIM. Her response was similar to Lightroom and she also said she had no desire to participate in the orgasm of a male bodied person.

It's the same male view of women's sexuality that makes someone like Owen Jones tell women they are bigots for not recognising TIMs as women (in the specific context of discussions about pressure being put on lesbians) but take the highest of umbrage when asked when he last performed cunnilingus on a transman.

Actually it's the trans-ideology I can thank for making me realise quite how 'penis centric sex' is considered the only way.

I was watching a video of a woman who went round asking men when was the last time they had sex. They answered, various answers. She asked whether the woman had had an orgasm. Almost to a man, the answers were I think so, I'm not sure, um maybe, or just plain no.

She then asked, in that case, how did they know when the sex was over. Again, to a man, they said after I had an orgasm.

And yes, the outraged whining that if a lesbian uses a dildo, then she should be fine with a penis. The absolute blind incomprehension that sex may not be PIV, is staggering.

Particularly in light of the fact that a woman's orgasm is centred on her clitoris. Which, is generally, a hit and miss affair during PIV.

Come to think of it, even the word foreplay reflects it, as though pleasing a woman is merely a warmup for the main event.

And in 99.999999% of cases, if a woman wants a penis- she wants it attached to a man

My experience of sleeping with a woman is utterly different from that of sleeping with men, and it's not just about vulvas. It's the whole experience of the female body. A male body is not simply differentiated from a female body by virtue of a penis and boobs. It's a totally different sensory experience.

Yes. I've seen that argued as wrong because if someone says they are a woman then their male anatomy and body is a woman's, and always has been biologically a woman's, just in a less usual form ( yes, it is that contorted). Essentially you have just confronted them with a reality they find hurtful and 'erasing' (ie it messes with what they think, feel and how they see themselves) which increases their dysphoria so is 'literal violence' (this means people commit suicide through feeling like this) and so you are evil, violent, and a terf, and rather than have to process things like reality, other views or their own issues, the blame and rage about it can be directed at you. (Please see t shirts saying kill a terf, rape a terf, burn in a fire).

This is apparently all OK by most MPs.

Do google the cotton ceiling for your partner. if you haven't run across this yet, this is a simile for lesbians refusing sex with biologically male self identified woman as being a glass ceiling of acceptance as women, with the cotton part referencing lesbians' knickers. There have actually been seminars held by reputable bodies for transwomen to 'problem solve' and work on how to break through the cotton ceiling.

In other words, how to get lesbians to just shut up and get their knickers off.

Amongst the worst hot takes I've seen are the ones saying "those lesbians who say they don't want penis better not be using dildos!!!!"

Because if you have allowed any object to penetrate you, ever, you are now apparently obliged to let all objects penetrate you.

Well I'm bisexual and I still don't want to sleep with any transwoman. Bizarrely I wouldn't have an issue with a pre-op transman and I think it's because they don't have the same level of entitlement that tends to exude from the pores of most transwomen - you just know it wouldn't be a fun mutually enjoyable experience.

That's exactly it, OneFlew. Amazingly enough, i don't find entitlement (good MN word, that), misogyny and homophobia all that sexy, even in someone whose genitals don't actively put me off.