Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Flip

1 2 3 4 5

Original poster

Why do men hate women?

105 replies

TiggerWarning · 28/09/2017 17:58

A small question for a Thursday afternoon...

Where does it stem from? If we lived in a more equal society would fewer men hate women? Is it seeing women being treated as lesser that gives other men the signal that it's okay to do the same or is it always there? Is it just inevitable as we are weaker and give birth etc?

I haven't read much about this - I know the Greer quote about women not knowing how much men hate us and I see it being mentioned but that's it.

OP posts:

Ereshkigal · 29/09/2017 20:05

And old. Misogynistic men often think women over the age of 30 are entirely superfluous.

Guiltybystander · 29/09/2017 20:17

SpongeBob Datun and other ladies, I am a woman. I am allowed to criticise my own kind. And men too hehe..

Datun · 29/09/2017 20:21

Guiltybystander

Oops, sorry if I was on the verge of misgendering you!

ErrolTheDragon · 29/09/2017 20:30

Well, I suppose its true there's nowt so queer as folk, and women are somewhat over half of that so, guilty, true but not particularly enlightening.

NoLoveofMine · 29/09/2017 20:39

GuardianLions I completely agree with your posts and I think you're making very interesting points!

ginandbearit · 29/09/2017 20:54

Chap here ...
Ex psychiatric nurse and counsellor /therapist , did a lot of work with abusive men and substance misusers so perhaps coloured by extremes but i think they illustrate a wider truth .
I dont think it's all about sex , though that obviously features . i think its because women posses what men want (this is obvs a massive generalisation) which is approval, maternal care and love , sex , security , and some men bitterly resent that they have to , in their terms , bargain or ask or need this and so feel weakened and lesser .
Women have a lot of power over men .. It may not be a power that women want or recognise (gatekeepers etc ) but some men see this as a massive threat. .and so anger and contempt are their response .

Many men fear women ...and so respond with aggression in different forms .. Rape as an act of power not sexual gratification is a common theme .
One area that does not seem to ve touched on much is how some gay men really hate women - see viscious camp drag acts .. I worked with a gay care assistant whose party trick was to invite his lesbian co workers for a meal and drinks , they would feel safe with him , he spiked their drinks and sexually assaulted and raped them on video . That was an expression of anger and resentmentnot sexual gratification , which I also think is a motivator for some of the behaviours in the trans world.
Sorry this was long and maybe not clear but there is a lot more behind male hatred of women than sex

OlennasWimple · 29/09/2017 21:13

gin thanks for that interesting post.

You reminded me that last night I had been thinking of the special vitriol that some gay men have for women (and which I don't think, though may be proved wrong, is reciprocated by lesbians towards men). I couldn't work out whether it was that they felt able to say the same sort of things that straight men think because they don't want stuff - notably sex - from women; or whether they fancy men because they find women repulsive or they find women repulsive so they fancy men instead.

ginandbearit · 29/09/2017 21:21

The gay thing is interesting and i think a pointer to some trans hatred of women ...I remember watching Pete Burns on Big Brother a few years ago - he was scathing and vile to two women in particular and i was struck at how much he looked like them but as a caricature of them too .. Maybe they were what he wanted to be but subconsciously he also wanted to destroy them somehow .

user1487175389 · 29/09/2017 21:27

That's true. I had a gay 'frenemy' at about 17. Depending on what mood I found him in he would either be declaring his undying love for me or just stinging me repeatedly with these caustic putdowns. He did it to all the female friends he considered 'lesser'. I could never really relax around him.

GuardianLions · 29/09/2017 21:32

Thanks noloveofmine

HemlockIsSpartacus · 29/09/2017 21:42

With the gay man thing I actually had a long talk with a couple of my gay friends and we think it's a socialisation thing.

If gay men are fairly feminine/camp growing up then they tend to be regarded as non-men, and therefore are expected to perform (some) aspects of femininity. Especially the negative ones like bitchiness, superficiality, vanity, competitiveness. They are expected to act more like the cliche of the vindictive schoolgirl bully.

If they conform to that then they are applauded - see also drag acts. So there's incentive, often from a young age to act out this hatred of women.

GuardianLions · 29/09/2017 21:49

I think with gay men there is a component of self-loathing (internalised homophobia) that can make them despise women. I've known gay men that only fancy straight-looking blokes and there has to be resentment there about "sorry I don't fancy YOU- I only like women". I think it can lead to being quite judgemental - 'she should make more of an effort if she wants to keep him'. I think there is also a revulsion because heterosexuality in men is (ironically) very central to male bonding and the objectification of women is such a key ingredient in maintaining male dominance over women -
so it must start to feel sickening to have it constantly shoved in your face if it is just not your thing.

GuardianLions · 29/09/2017 21:50

True about living a stereotype too spartacus

JemimaLovesHamble · 29/09/2017 23:02

Germaine Greer describes a conversation with a young man, back in the 60's where he says when he fancies a woman he'll do anything for her, until he has sex with her. And then the moment he ejaculates, he starts to feel utterly disgusted by her, so much so that he gets an urge to strangle her.

I heard similar comments from male friends at college (sadly I was a "cool girl" back then so it's probably best I don't remember my reaction) that they felt revolted by women as soon as they'd finished having sex with them. Lots of jokes about sneaking out of the house/kicking them about of bed.

Odd thing is that feeling like you want to kill the person you had sex with must fly against biology and the reproductive impulse?

IfNot · 29/09/2017 23:14

I think it's sexual shame. I've thought many times that men are really due a sexual revolution. On the whole they seem to want sex, but don't seem to like it very much. Of rather, they don't like the fact that they want it? I have (ahem) been around the block a few times and have only rarely met a man who seemed truly comfortable with sex/sexuality.
It goes against everything we are supposed to believe, but when you think about porn and that clean, shiny, hard version of sex represented there, it's kind of a cartoon version of something that in real life has smells and hair and sweat.
Not sure what my point is really! Just riffing on something I feel instinctively.

bambambini · 30/09/2017 08:28

As to the being disgusted by women once they've had sex with them - i wonder if that's a modern thing due to the prolic porn industry, objectification of women etc and fact young people see sex as a casual sport now. Would it have been the same before the sexual revolution and society became more relaxed. Or is it just some men have issues and some always had.

Tameagobairanois · 30/09/2017 17:32

I agree with ifnot

Even if they believe tjey want casual sex they're unable to be truly casual. Some reaction that is anything but casual prompts either a hypocritical disrespect or a proprierorial claim with no obligation/commitment on their part. It isnt 'casual'.

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 30/09/2017 17:55

Ok, HUGE evo psych hideous generalization alert , but here I'm just musing so goes....

It's natural for men to want to ensure paternity. At the same time it's natural for women to want to obfuscate it because your children have better chances of survival (if there is a change of alpha male and the incoming male thinks DC might be his he's less likely to kill them, explains the persistence of the beta male).

That explains the need to control women's reproduction and of course because they're stronger they get to. And now they're just pissed off and resent us because they don't get to anymore. You always hear these jokes about wives and bosses being domineering, talking too much, being bossy even though the opposite is statistically more accurate. It's a coping mechanism for loss of privilege.

Of course it's all a lot less clear-cut because of the advent of pair-bonding leading to more equality and the owning of women as labour (which happened even pre-capitalism) which exacerbated the inequality. Human nature is a mish-mash of often contradictory drives. Hence love and domination are often mixed.

A big fat mess really.

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 30/09/2017 17:58

As to the being disgusted by women once they've had sex with them

I don't know. My mum used to tell me (and she was brought up believing this so pre-porn) that if you give a guy what he wants too early he won't respect you.

The hypocrisy and injustice of it made me seethe. And of course girls are afraid that the guy will go off them so feel like they need to play the game even if they don't want to..

HelenaDove · 01/10/2017 01:31

Ms Game YY to your post but then they also seem to have a hatred of childfree by choice women. As one myself ive had misogynistic comments directed at me by men ( "you are not human" being one that happened on live TV) and ive also seen the same and much nastier comments aimed at other women who have made this choice.

I suspect its by the same sort of men who would commit reprroductive coercion.

NoLoveofMine · 01/10/2017 02:04

Helena

Tameagobairanois · 01/10/2017 10:08

ifyouseeRItaMoreno I really disagree with your musing that it is natural for women to want to obfuscate paternity. There are studies that show that a man will channel more resources (time, affection, effort, food, whatever) to his sister's child than to his brother's for reasons that he's not analysing but I don't think it is conscious or subconscious for a mother to obfuscate the exact parent of her child. There is only one set of circumstances where a woman might be invested in to pulling that one off but it's not something the average mother in average circumstances is going to be inclined to do.

Tameagobairanois · 01/10/2017 10:10

"you are not human'' ??? because you don't have a child

I don't think he understands the word human. If that was on TV he was the one who look stupid for an audience.

soccermum43 · 27/04/2018 10:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 27/04/2018 14:30

Some because we're smarter than men and can see and sense more holistically and ask critical questions that they perceive as limiting them

Some because they just want a slave to fetch and carry and have free sex with anytime (but most won't admit that in public to women)

Some because they have issues in their own history with women

Mostly women are a demonstration of men's rank in the hierarchy and if they can't get one, it lowers their status and they project that hatred onto women- tl;dr power control and stays at women's expense

Flip

1 2 3 4 5