Why do men hate women?

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A small question for a Thursday afternoon...

Where does it stem from? If we lived in a more equal society would fewer men hate women? Is it seeing women being treated as lesser that gives other men the signal that it's okay to do the same or is it always there? Is it just inevitable as we are weaker and give birth etc?

I haven't read much about this - I know the Greer quote about women not knowing how much men hate us and I see it being mentioned but that's it.

Oh, it goes way back. To quote the Malleus Maleficarum (1487).

“All wickedness is but little to the wickedness of a woman… What else is woman but a foe to friendship, an unescapable punishment, a necessary evil, a natural temptation, a desirable calamity, domestic danger, a delectable detriment, an evil nature, painted with fair colours… When a woman thinks alone, she thinks evil… Women are by nature instruments of Satan — they are by nature carnal, a structural defect rooted in the original creation.”

I came across this review recently, I think some of you would find interesting (and came across the above quote above there), www.feministcurrent.com/2016/10/04/this-is-how-they-broke-our-grandmothers/

My copy arrived today.

I have never forgotten that line from Germaine Greer. "Women have very little idea of how much men hate them."

I think social pressure that drives us all towards the set up of sharing a home, marriage, children etc contributes. I think for most people this isn't a natural way to live, you should be able to escape each other. I would also say at least 90% of the men I know seem to see their families as an encumbrance they'd quite like to escape but can't because being in that set up is what's expected. So they see women as the main instigator of this set up that they don't particularly want to be in, all their money goes on it, children are demanding and very hard work and deep down they believe they were forced into it by the woman; they should of course be off playing football for their country and shagging lots models 😒 and sampling the world that was promised to them by porn and societies objectification of women. The Wife is a convenient receptacle for the blame of the misery of an ordinary life.

I kind of feel I was persuaded into children and family by DH rather than the other way round. But then, by Stonewall standards, I'm a bloke anyway.

The offspring are a very beloved addition to life, don't get me wrong, but they were never part of my Life Plan in they way they were to DH.

'DesirableCalamity' would be such a good user name...

I quite like StructuralDefect!

Possibly because we are smaller and weaker so can be their whipping boy for those men who aint all that. Makes them feel they have someone below them on pecking order. That some women are smarter, more successful, funnier and turn and add in some rejection is enough really.

all the above suggestions are interesting but still beg the question of WHY men will go to such lengths to control women
I find the arguement that it is to do with controlling reproduction (in order to ensure 'legitimacy' and hence inheritance) plausible.

From my experience the men who are violent towards women are usually violent towards men too. So it's less that they specifically hate women it's more they hate people (or more likely not getting their own way). I'm not convinced of the 'porn' argument as easy access to violent porn is relatively new yet DV is as old as civilisation.

At the heart of it it's because (until very very recently) men could not be 100% sure if the children they fathered were really theirs. To my mind this has led to an astonishing need to try to control women, through religion (most of which are highly patriarchal and have hating and fearing women at the core of their doctrine).
Also, maybe, men are controlled by their mothers in early life and as they grow up they are told by everything around them that women are less than them, so it makes them resentful.
The only way forward is greater equality, meaning that that women get the same freedoms and priveledges men do as a matter of course. ( I am explaining "equality" for the hard of thinking among us). Its a long road.
But a LOT of men really do hate women. I notice it MUCH more as I get older. Maybe hate is the wrong word. Despise is more accurate.

Lancelottie Assassinated

I think that passage definitely throws down a challenge .

So true MsGame, some fab writing

I think it's too easy to blame modern media / porn for misogyny. As a pp said, it's been going on for ever (literally ever, if you follow an Abrahamic faith)

I think that there are lots of different reasons, that come together in various forms at various times for various men, including a generally violent disposition; a feeling of not having done as well in life as they feel that they should (entitlement is a partner to misogyny), and therefore needing a whipping boy; sexual frustration; plus a big dose of mistrusting the "other" (and what can be more other to a man than a woman?)

Interesting how MsGame's post ties in with IfNot's - the modern consequence of that history.

Greer argued that kids should be brought up in sort of communes of women didn't she. Obviously that's very radical and most of us here have men in our lives who we love very much and can't imagine life without - but it does make you wonder what life could be like if we could start completely anew without any of that patriarchy guff

I don't know. But Germaine Greer describes a conversation with a young man, back in the 60's where he says when he fancies a woman he'll do anything for her, until he has sex with her. And then the moment he ejaculates, he starts to feel utterly disgusted by her, so much so that he gets an urge to strangle her. Germaine thought it was to do with them seeing women as spunk receptacles and having learned revulsion about their own bodily functions & fluids from infancy.

Also, whenever someone asks this question, some bright spark retorts with 'why do women hate men?'. Well, I'm always surprised we don't hate men more, considering that even the ones that seem decent enough to to have relationships with still kill us at the rate of two women a week. Plus, yknow, the patriarchy.

Why men hate women is still the big mystery as far as I'm concerned.

As regards heterosexuality and reproduction and all that evolutionary psychology style explanations, okay, I guess. Except in various primates, different ways of achieving that, different social structures possible, but all with the similar constraints...
But in terms of hatred? My musings are that to men, women are forever the other. Other man may be opponents, or comrades, or someone to emulate or learn from, because they are someone like you in the same social structure. You might feel put upon by another man, but you can potentially usurp him and take his place in the social structure, you can in a sense become him because he is fundamentally like you. But woman? Apart from TRAs, you can't do that. The powers structures there, you can't get over them in the same way. Hence the deeper emotion, and the urge to set up the social structure so that you have, as much as possible, a permanent win.
Which keeps bringing me back to compulsory heterosexuality........

As regards the can't get away from the family argument -- I think it is the other way around! We have evolved to feel comfortable and less threatened amongst those we are related to, our small family group and near relations. Whereas amongst a large crowd of strangers? We're not like wilderbeest, we're not herd animals.

Women as the other, as not quite (hu)man, yet still necessary. Less than weaker, but then resented because you can't just get rid! Unlike children, who although dependent and a sap on your time and resources, potentially grow up and become useful. But women are in that sense permanent children, permanently lesser. And indeed, it is not uncommon that that is how some men view women, not really fully grown-up like themselves and capable of adult responsibilities and decisions and having that type of power.

Hatred and resentment? How could you not, when god or nature or something saw fit to create this mocking not quite you yet permanently lesser being? Why did he bother? It's the ole can't live with 'em, but can't live without them line. And also, once you have created the social structure where women are less, you have to believe that, you have to continue to hate and resent the lesser being who keeps trying to escape the position you have put them in. Because if you didn't, you would instead say -- this is wrong, this being equal to myself doesn't deserve to be treated like this, and the whole shebang would have collapsed upon itself, rather than persisting for thousands of years. So, men had to believe that we were lesser and deserved to be so, and how could you not hate this mockery of yourself, this not quite equal.............

A hundred years ago women were told they were too feeble to vote. They were, quite literally, the property of their father until another man came along to own them.

Their children were considered the property of their husband, no matter what he was like.

Until quite recently, the words love honour and obey were included in the marriage vows. And widely accepted.

Until the early 90s, sex on demand was considered a man's right and within marriage rape was completely legal.

Today a woman cannot have an abortion, without the signature of two doctors.

Honour killings - if you don't do what I say, I will kill you.

FGM - no one but me will have sex with you, and you will not enjoy it.

In the 1980s, when I was 21, a pub landlord could, quite legally, refuse to serve me purely on the grounds that I was female. And clearly couldn't think for myself.

When I was a child, my mother could not get a mortgage without the signature of my father.

Women, for decades have done the same job as men, and been paid less. There is a law against it now. But before then, it was considered completely normal. Because women simply aren't worth the same. Despite doing the same, often better.

These viewpoints and attitudes were endemic and firmly entrenched.

Does anyone really think that in 2017 this has been completely eliminated?

I don't.

Do men hate women though? Or is it the way our society is/has happened to evolve that disadvantages one group (women) to the advantage of another. So the group with advantage have no reason to think about it at all. And probably have never thought about it. Because they don't have to. it is only as our society evolves further that the disadvantaged group has any power to discuss the inequality in our society. People with power take the piss of of those with less power. It gets ingrained. And self perpetuating. Whether humans can ever be equal is a huge ethical debate. I tend to think that most people don't see further than their own interest,, totally understandable in our current selfish society.
I'm not explaining it well. Maybe I'm just saying that most people are self interested wankers for an easy life.

The more equal society becomes the more they hate us I think. It's so depressing.

I definitely grew up 'knowing my place'. Still re-learning now.

The more equal thindgs get the more the advantaged people have to think and realise what wankers they are. It's gonna hurt

I've noticed that men (strangers/randoms/etc) definitely act more kindly towards a woman who face is itchy with make-up, abdomen uncomfortably trussed up in 'flattering'/ 'fitting' clothes and with painful high-heel shoes. I notice this when I dress up on a night out or whatever - men are better mannered and show less open contempt. I think it is because they feel empowered by our display of obedience to our sexual script.

If I go out in comfortable clothes, not even thinking about my appearance, yes still feeling quite comfortable in my own skin and happy, I get a sense that some men hate me, for not being more apologetic and ashamed of myself. There are the glances with a curling lip sneer and narrowed eyes and stuff.

So I think there is something about sex- male entitlement to it, resentment about not getting it, blaming women for their feelings of powerlessness about it, but also I think its about them deeply believing women to be lesser - sex is all we are... and if we look like we have other priorities it really pisses them off. How dare we think we can walk around having and voicing thoughts and opinions? The insubordination of it

I know what you mean. I went off a man recently because (at 51) he was giving out about a woman his own age in skinny jeans. He thought he was being funny. His point was that it was a 'trick'. She looked good from behind but she was his age. So therefore, that cancelled out what he thought to begin with? I got so turned off. How dare he think that a woman pulling on a pair of jeans has to be mindful of the fact that men she doesn't know and won't meet might ogle her from behind and then be offended that she's not 25. For. Gawds. Sake. I got so turned off.

Women are conditioned to care what others think. Men are conditioned not to care, it's what they think and feel that's important. And when they're told they're wrong........ That's we we see what they're made of

When we

This all makes for some sad reading.
Not 'picking' on Guardian particularly but (her) comment about going out in casual clothes giving a sense of hate is so wrong. What is wrong with being who you are and how you want to dress, why should you care what anyone else thinks? What is relevant is it is unlikely any man would 'HATE' you for your appearance.

No, men don't hate women they don't want to fuck. It's just that their reaction to the woman is not tempered by the idea that there is a possibility of sex. That's why, when you reach middle age, you really notice which men are decent guys and which are mysoginists.
When I was young and pretty I was always a feminist but I didn't have as much of a sense of men despising me.
(Not that I'm not still well fit but I'm not the universally attractive size 10 twenty something lass that I was ).
Some men just act like they don't hate women when there is something they want from you, but it's there deep down.