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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Horizon programme on transgender

116 replies

Pemba · 26/09/2017 19:46

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b096k5dm

BBC Two tonight (Tuesday) 9 pm. I wonder what take they'll have on it?

OP posts:
TheFirstMrsDV · 01/10/2017 14:59

I thought mis gendering was not allowed on MN?
Why is the term 'cis' repeatedly used on this thread?

SuburbanRhonda · 01/10/2017 15:05

Good point, mrsdv.

sarasabrownie · 01/10/2017 15:08

Excellent post pencils

MissBabbs · 01/10/2017 15:15

I. Wish they would change 'gender assigned at birth' to 'gender of their physical appearance' so it would be 'people are not happy with the gender of their physical appearance'.
Assigned at birth sounds like the midwives were busy gossiping and didn't bother to look properly so 'assigned' the baby as any old thing.

Datun · 01/10/2017 15:18

This from Johns Hopkins University:

*Arif ... concludes that none of the studies provides conclusive evidence that gender reassignment is beneficial for patients. It found that most research was poorly designed, which skewed the results in favour of physically changing sex. There was no evaluation of whether other treatments, such as long-term counselling, might help transsexuals, or whether their gender confusion might lessen over time. Arif says the findings of the few studies that have tracked significant numbers of patients over several years were flawed because the researchers lost track of at least half of the participants. The potential complications of hormones and genital surgery, which include deep vein thrombosis and incontinence respectively, have not been thoroughly investigated, either.

“There is huge uncertainty over whether changing someone’s sex is a good or a bad thing,” says Dr Chris Hyde, director of Arif. “While no doubt great care is taken to ensure that appropriate patients undergo gender reassignment, there’s still a large number of people who have the surgery but remain traumatized — often to the point of committing suicide.”[78]*

Pencils

Bravo!

Iris65 · 01/10/2017 16:26

The Horizon programme referred uncritically to the finding that 40% of trans people attempt suicide. This figure is from on a survey commissioned by several trans organisations that was carried out in the UK and Ireland over a online over a three month period in 2012 and completed by 106 people. The survey’s findings are available on the websites of the commissioning organisations. It has not been peer reviewed and published in a recognised journal. This may be because the methodology is very poor and therefore we cannot accept the findings uncritically. A brief analysis reveals the following:
With 106 respondents it is a tiny sample if the demographic of 1% of the population having gender identity issues is accepted. For example, the estimated population of trans people in the UK alone would be @600,000, according to trans organisation figures.
Surveys are also notorious for the self selected nature of the sample. People completing surveys often differ from the target population in important respects. For example, they are motivated (for whatever reason) to complete the survey. Those who have good mental health may not be as motivated to complete a survey as they are occupied with other things. Self selected respondents are also often more compliant than the target population (hence agreeing to and taking the time to do the survey) and may therefore be more easily influenced by leading questions and confirmation bias.
The 1 - 3 hours that it took to complete the survey may have excluded those with less time, such as those who are fully employed. As there is an association between good mental health and employment it is possible that it has unwittingly excluded those with good mental health.
The trans community is also quite a tight knit one. Trans people who are in touch with organisations such as TransBareAll often know each other and it is possible that many (if not all) respondents were known to each other and shared norms and values as well as being exposed to the same kind of information. This can also lead to a biased sample.
The statement that 81% of those who had started or completed transition had thought about or attempted suicide before beginning transition is not helpful to policymakers or those working with trans people either. There are no statistics given for how many are no longer suicidal after transition and there are no raw numbers, so this figure could be based as on a few as 5 people. There are actually very few peer reviewed and high quality studies that look at outcome following transition, so it is of little surprise that figures are not quoted.
The often stated conclusion that trans people need more access to treatment because of their risk of suicide is not supported either. It is unclear how many of the respondents to this survey have completed or begun gender reassignment. It is entirely possible that people who have access to these interventions remain suicidal, in which case what trans people need is support for their mental health, not earlier or more aggressive medical and surgical intervention.

SerfTerf · 01/10/2017 17:53

Assigned at birth sounds like the midwives were busy gossiping and didn't bother to look properly so 'assigned' the baby as any old thing.

TBH, it makes it sound as though it's done on a random allocation. Perhaps by drawing straws.

It's one of the things which undermines the credibility of the currently fashionable narrative that the transactivists are pushing.

Ktown · 01/10/2017 17:57

How about gender is dropped altogether and we just refer to birth sex?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/10/2017 18:08

According to Stonewall 96% of trans students are self-harming. I suspect there may be some issues with the methodology, and with the interpretation of results...

Gingernaut · 01/10/2017 18:11

@Iris65. Many thanks.

So unreliable, like virtually all the statistics quoted by the TRAs........🤔

Gingernaut · 01/10/2017 18:14

According to mental health charities, there has been an almighty jump in incidences of self-harm

This is the most recent article I could find....

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/23/shocking-nhs-figures-show-rise-in-self-harm-among-under-18s/

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/10/2017 18:20

According to mental health charities

We are fucking up our kids. I think things like the jump is trans is a symptom of this. That stonewall report that 96% of trans were self harming was apparently an internet survey. There is this odd assumption that this is due to the distress of being trans, rather than considering other mental health conditions at all.

BMacklin · 01/10/2017 18:29

pencils and iris fascinating! Thanks!

BMacklin · 01/10/2017 18:30

its well quite. Correlation isn't causation.

dancerdog · 01/10/2017 20:07

Never thought I would be brave enough to comment in these threads but the link to Edinburgh Action on Trans Health - especially the demands - is quite a read.

ALittleBitOfButter · 01/10/2017 20:20

Strange lambasts feminists for not toeing the intersectional line and centering trans viewpoints.
Yet completely ignores Curry. In fact I've never seen a strident TRA engage with the comments of a gender critical trans poster.

Wonder why?

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