I'm a gender critical feminist with a 'trans' child.

[Theoryofparenting]

Just a question I've been wondering. I have 15 year old twins, both of whom are biologically female. However, one of them 'presents as male' and has done for a couple of years.

He tells me that TransActivists are stupid. He doesn't believe that people are born in the wrong body. He knows you can't change your sex. He doesn't 'identify as transgender'.

As a young child he would tell me that he was a boy, that he would be upset if he became a woman. I assumed it was a developmental phase (I was similar as a child), however as soon as puberty hit at 11 he went downhill. Eating disorders, self harm, depression, anxiety. He would never tell us the root cause until he came to us at 13 and told us how he was feeling. He does not have 'gender dysphoria' - he has 'sex dysphoria'. His feelings are not caused by gender roles/expectations.

When people ask about it, he tells them that he isn't 'transgender' as he never had a gender, just a sex. He says he feels more comfortable presenting how he does and that he strongly dislikes his body, not societies expectations.

He has never been to a gender therapist. He isn't on blockers or hormones. Anything like that is being delayed, by his choice as well as mine.

I strongly agree with the gender critical feminist point of view (as does he). We've been through so much because of how my child feels. He gets annoyed when people associate him with TransActivists, because he is nothing like them and disagrees with everything they say/do.

I made this thread to show that not all parents of 'trans' children agree with the agenda. All I want is for my child to be comfortable and happy. If anyone has any questions then I am more than happy to answer them.

Sending you and your DC kind thoughts. It sounds like you are handling the situation well.

I second what sillage said.

Hopefully she will become comfortable in her body later and not decide to spend a life taking drugs or having surgery. Whilst it may make her happy for a while, imagine in 10 years, or 20. She needs to stay physically healthy so that she can have options later.

Has your child looked at transexual male Miranda Yardley's website and youtube channel?

Miranda is the sane voice of trans people, recognising his sex, recognising he'll never be female, supportive of women.

mirandayardley.com/en/
www.youtube.com/channel/UCiKMgBOG8x_fdJ1B8XP1jGQ

Has your child considered calling herself non-gender conforming, and just leave it at that? Has your daughter explored her sexuality yet too? She may be lesbian and just finding it hard to come to terms with that in this horribly pornified, sexualised world, where lesbians are reduced to a male porn fantasy

They take on a stereotypically male appearance so that people who look at them think they have a male body, isn't that what most trans people do? In what way are they "not" trans if they have changed their name and pronouns to male and adopt the appearance of the male sex when they are female?

It's brilliant to reject the concept of self identifying because it is running rampage in Northern America and we've ended up with a lot of confused adolescents.

You don't say how old your child is now but I wonder if the sex-body dismorphia, eating disorders and self harm are all a package of symptoms stemming from one underlying problem that is not being addressed.

sunkisses 100%

The child is 15. The OP says so clearly in her opening post.

I don't want to interpret the situation for the OP, but my understanding is that their child is genetically / biologically and 'bodily' female, but when they look in the mirror they expect to see a male body. In other words, this is about bodies (body or sex dysphoria) and not about liking football rather than dolls, etc., which suggests gender dysphoria. This is to my knowledge what used to characterise the diagnosis of 'body dysmorphia' in the past when it was all about 'transsexualism'. It's similar to 'knowing' that your right leg should not be there.

That's why I think it is useful to maintain a distinction between 'gender dysphoria' and 'sex or body dysmorphia'. One is about unhappiness with gender, the other is about a distorted view of one's own body.

Of course in the old days there were a range of treatments available and medicalisation / surgery was the last option. It is now the first.

Theoryofparenting

I think I get where you're coming from.

Your child has gender dysphoria, but does not buy into all the bullshit surrounding the trans-ideology.

Frankly, I have often wondered how anyone with even a modicum of intelligence does buy into it.

But of course, gender dysphoria does not necessarily make a distinction between smart people, and fools.

It does sound to me like they might well be, in old money, a lesbian.

Having a stereotypically non-feminine appearance, or non-feminine interests, but still seeing the way women are treated, because of their biology, has to be tricky. And feeling 'non feminine', despite a female body, must be difficult to navigate.

I think you're doing a great job. Having a child who has gender dysphora, yet also being gender critical, must be incredibly hard all round.

I would echo what previous posters have said. Finding a group of more stereotypically masculine lesbians, might help.

Or, have you read Lily Maynard online?

Her daughter identified as trans, despite being gender critical.

They have both written about it from their individual perspective.

It might help.

Hm. Surprising you didn't mention your own child in this post, OP, to say the least.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3036209-To-think-that-your-sexuality-isnt-determined-by-what-you-wear-like

The only social media they have is Facebook, so no worries there.

I'd also add, that although Facebook may not be quite as awful as other social media, you can still access some pretty negative stuff at the click of a button on that site.

One of the first things that support groups often say to parents with children who may be struggling, is keep them off the Internet.

A massive ask, for a teenager. But perhaps getting them out of the house?

I'd also be very surprised, if they are not accessing other sites, when your eye isn't on it.

I know someone in her mid twenties. All the way through primary school, she was with the boys. She dressed like the boys and behaved like the boys. Unfortunately, she even joined in the boys in a ring of bullying that split the class up and caused a significant number of children to leave the school. One of the parents, in the darker moments of this time, remarked that she was a prime case for a sex change when she grew older.

She has one sister who is typically girly, although not overly so. Her parents and family friends just loved her for who she is and cared and guided her like any loving family.

And now she has a job, which can be done by either sex, has her hair done nicely because she is visible to the public and occasionally goes out on the town in a dress.

You just can't tell.

It sounds like this has been a hard few years for both of you. But I think you have added to it by getting terns mixed up. His and her, he and she are gender markers.

Clothes are gender markers.

Your daughter is an xx by sex, that won't change.

She seems to be a girl who likes masculine presentation (pronouns/clothes) and thats okay.

I'm honestly not trying to be inflammatory but I really don't understand. If your daughter knows that she can't change sex and that she is female, why do you refer to her as "he"? Surely that's just buying into the idea of being able to change sex?

Both of you sound very sensible and sound as though you are handling your daughter's dysphoria in the best way possible. I echo reading Lily Maynard if you haven't already done so.

I'm honestly not trying to be inflammatory but I really don't understand. If your daughter knows that she can't change sex and that she is female, why do you refer to her as "he"? Surely that's just buying into the idea of being able to change sex?

^that.

I don't see the problem with using male pronouns and a male name. It's what the person wants. Look at it this way: imagine someone saying to a married woman who used the title Ms 'but everyone knows really that you're married, why pretend, using Ms not Mrs is just denying the truth' to which the answer would be 'This is how I wish to be known and referred to so please be polite and respect my choice'. Not a perfect analogy I'm sure but why shouldn't OP's child get to choose how they'd like to be referred to? This is a battle not worth fighting for me.

OP I think he's being very sensible in avoiding the hormones and surgery. Hope that continues. How have school been about it?

I don't see it this way - both Ms and Mrs are female titles. I see it more like me saying that I will henceforward only be known as Rear Admiral Drone, despite my never having been in the Navy or having any intention of being in the Navy. It seems delusional, and yet the OP and her daughter do not seem, from her posts, to be delusional. Hence my question.

I was with you until you mentioned drugs and surgery. So your son is transsexual and is self identifying. He does want to change sex. There will be many transgender who would be technically transsexual but prefer the transgender name as the umbrella name.

The OP knows that if her child is dysphoric enough then when they are older they may choose to have hormone treatment and surgery. At that time there would be nothing the OP could do to stop this. The OP is probably also aware that coming down hard now and telling her child what's going to happen could well have the opposite effect.

While the child is talking about hormone treatment and surgery but isn't committed to it, the OP's approach makes sense to me.

I'm honestly not trying to be inflammatory but I really don't understand. If your daughter knows that she can't change sex and that she is female, why do you refer to her as "he"? Surely that's just buying into the idea of being able to change sex?

I don't see how the above is any different to Miranda Yardley. The op's daughter would be a transsexual who wants to be male but is aware she isn't. Using "he" is just a nicety. Some languages don't even differentiate between he and she so it's not as though either is necessary in language.

I've got no personal problems with using someone's preferred pronouns, though I admit It clouds the issues in our language. I'd call Miranda "she" to be polite as she likes it. And I'd agree it's similar to using Miss/ms/mrs. They mean fuck all other than our society is obsessed with marital status

I also don't struggle with "he". The child has dysphoria. This means "a profound state of unease". Even though the child is aware enough to understand that they are female and can't change sex, they are looking for relatively small accommodations to ease their unease.

An analogy to me would be someone with a bad facial disfigurement avoiding mirrors. They would know this doesn't remove the disfigurement but would be avoiding being presented with the fact it's there.

Given that there are psychological treatments for body dysmorphia, what is the state of treatment for gender dysphoria?

In other words, if someone has body dysmorphia, we don't say "yes you are hugely overweight despite only being 6 stone" or "yes your chin is disgusting, cut it off", we offer them therapy, and/or drugs.

nauticant I think the analogy would be someone with a tiny scar who thinks it is a bad facial disfigurement.

Many people who have bad disfigurement learn to live happily with it, and are realistic - either they cover it up happily, or they don't cover it up but live with it/have counselling/explain it to people.

But equally people who have a very slight disfigurement, or no flaws at all, become obsessed with one particular aspect of their appearance.

Have just had a quick Google.

If you have body dysmorphia - the goal is to help you realise that your body is normal/normal for you, and not disfigured.

However if you have gender dysphoria - the goal seems to be NOT to make you realise that your body is normal, but to either help you to present as the opposite sex or to have surgery/hormones to help you change your genitalia/secondary sexual characteristics.

Why the discrepancy? Is it just due to activism?

Sorry for the slight hijack.

nauticant I think the analogy would be someone with a tiny scar who thinks it is a bad facial disfigurement.

I'm going by what the OP says about how serious the dysphoria is. They probably know enough about the severity to make sure they don't minimise it.

I have a dd who decided, pre teens, that she now was a boy. She changed her name, got her friends to call her by the new name, and presented as a boy. Photos of her at that age look like a boy, strangers took her as a boy. I carried on with the mantra that she could call herself what she wanted and wear what she wanted and that being a girl should not limit what she did. I did not call her by her preferred name, nor refer to her as 'he'.

Now in her late 20's, and in a stable ltr with a man, she reflects on that time as a period when she could SEE that boys / men "had more fun", they were doing all the risky things she wanted to do and she never had any interest in "girly" things, didn't get the whole "doll" thing her sister was obsessed by (she used to decapitate her sister's Barbies).

A few years into puberty and she started using a 'stronger' version of her own girls name. She had some same sex relationships but then met her now partner.

Children, teenagers, young adults, explore, experiment and test boundaries. That's all good, natural and normal. It's only by looking back with the eyes of maturity that my dd understands what was going on in her own mind at that point.

I'm horrified at the thought that, if she were that pre-teen now, I would be being encouraged to 'help' her transition.

ohyes

Ds1 who is now 18 said similar...that he would probably feel presssure to be a girl