DEBATE NOT HATE: WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT GENDER

[blackistheneworange]

Sorry if this is on here already but just seen it on twitter.

It's this Wednesday in Brighton which may be too short notice for me but you can book here. www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/debate-not-hate-we-need-to-talk-about-gender-tickets-38129665857/amp

YY, I find it very hard to stomach too, Weewitch.

I agree Weewitch. Can people born disabled and deformed "identify" as able-bodied? No, but they have cis-disabled privilege or whatever.

ALittleBitOfButter

Exactly. And by that reasoning, every disabled person, black person, homosexual, women, in fact every minority/oppressed group in the world has privilege by dint of
the fact that they were born that way.

It's a spectacular piece of manipulation and gaslighting.

I was reading a piece about a woman whose daughter transitioned. It was heartbreaking. And, according to the article, entirely down to social contagion.

After transitioning and hormone treatment, the girl became even more isolated and unhappy.

Having been encouraged to transition by online activists, they now turned round and blamed the fact that everyone hated her because she was trans as the source of her misery.

Unaccountably, it's a blindingly successful tactic.

And I do believe it's beginning to be called out for the stupendous act of sinister control that it is.

And I do believe it's beginning to be called out for the stupendous act of sinister control that it is.

I hope so Datun, I really do.
The question is, how can we 'speed up' the process or at least give it a louder voice?

Am sick of saying that we aren't anti-trans, we're just pro-women and protective of all those rights that have been fought for.

smarties

Just keep talking about it. Write to MPs. Join feminist groups, Facebook pages, blogs. Have your conviction ready for if, or when, the question comes up.

Datun was that the one by Becca Reilly-Cooper?

MCBeatsandGrindah

The girl was called Milly or Molly, I can't quite remember. And her male name was Max. Was that the one?

This is the link to the article about Molly.
quillette.com/2017/10/06/misunderstanding-new-kind-gender-dysphoria/

Along with the government definition of trans.

Yes that's it Datun and thanks Empress.

This article?
quillette.com/2017/10/06/misunderstanding-new-kind-gender-dysphoria/

Oops, should have refreshed thread before posting...

We really need to call them to account on the woolly definition and point out how cross dressing is a recognised sexual fetish and in the DSM 5.

Lisa Marchiano has also just published an excellent journal article in Psychological Perspectives -

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00332925.2017.1350804#.WdfQ3Bw_1hs.twitter

Salman Rushdie issues gender reassignment surgery warning to 'young people'

The British author focuses on the subject of gender identity in his new novel:

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/salman-rushdie-gender-reassignment-warning-the-golden-houses-transgender-transitioning-a7988006.html?amp

There's a Twitter thread with trans people expressing their objections to Salman Rushdie's view twitter.com/transscribe/status/916676416749625344

It seems to me that a large part of the problem is the difficulty in being able to discuss it.

Imvhe, every single time a women tries to articulate the view that they are pro-women's rights, not 'anti trans' they're shouted down with name calling, or 'no platformed', or have comments deleted as 'hate speech'.

It seems that there's a proportion of the trans right movement that experience any attempt by women to express their perspectives as some sort of an attack, so feel the need to shut it down rather than receive and reflect on it.

Which tends to be what happen to womens' voices within patriarchal social relations.

Meanwhile, fgm, domestic abuse, human trafficking, denied abortions, not to mention pay inequalities etc continue, whilst we're expected to run around trying not to speak 'hate speak' by using the pronoun that the person doesn't want to be addressed by that day.

When 'no means no' is seen as an repressive and oppressive ( see toilet issue above described by Claire), we are not in a good place

That's a really good article, TheWeeWitch, and in a peer-reviewed academic journal too.

There were so many very good points made. I'd seen the suicidal tendencies claim before, of course, but not this remark:

"It is well known that one study showed that 41% of transgender people had experienced suicidal ideation or self-harm (Haas, Rodgers, & Herman, 2014). It is less well known that the study gives no indication whether the attempt was before or after receiving transition care. ...Given the undeniably high rates of suicide in post-transition transsexuals, it is disingenuous to claim that transition is a panacea that will prevent suicide."

It's just so saddening to read the statements from detransitioned women:

"Transition didn't help. It did harm, harm that I now have to learn how to live with on top of all the shit I thought transition would fix....I did this [double mastectomy] because I believed it would heal all of the emotional issues I was blaming on my female body. It didn't work. Now I'm still all fucked up and I'm missing body parts, too."

I haven't posted on this topic despite using MN for a while.

I saw this on tv this morning. Sorry for the daily fail link. www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4961910/Good-Morning-Britain-Piers-gender-fluid-guest.html

I was so shocked at the attitude. Does his mean if I wear a mans outfit and pencil on a goatee I can go into the men's loos at a restaurant or in a gym?

Posted to soon.

It's baffling that his is how the tide is turning. I worry for my dd and my dd. Whatever next. God, I sound just like my granny saying that

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4961910/Good-Morning-Britain-Piers-gender-fluid-guest.html#

Born to a trans father - how confusing for everyone concerned.

I do like 'Tabitha said that she had no problem with Piers wanting to identify as an elephant.'

My nana used to say "I'm glad I'm leaving this world not just coming into it....."

I have to say I am coming to see what she meant :)

It seems to me that a large part of the problem is the difficulty in being able to discuss it.

I was actually thinking this as I got dressed- in a NON BINARY style- this morning. Through all my long life involved with activism, I have never known a subject which it is FORBIDDEN to discuss. It's more like heresy in religion- anything other than total acceptance is seen as transphobia and shouted down.

Not the twitter response I would have expected from Pink News readers on Pierce Morgan's guest:

twitter.com/PinkNews/status/917368562641141761

It's more like heresy in religion- anything other than total acceptance is seen as transphobia and shouted down.

Agreed. Along with a side order of possibly losing your job, being virtually burned at the stake online and getting punched in the face by someone who planned an evening fucking up terfs.

Its occurred to me before that history will probably look back on it much like we look back on the Pendle and Salem Witch Trials, which were the 'thing' of their time involving a lot of hysteria, teenagers and terror to not follow the batshit narrative. I wish the government would look at this in the context of escalating child mental health and anxiety crises and increasing rates of diagnosis of autism, and the appalling lack of help and resources, not to mention a lack of investigation into why we're raising a generation of children, particularly girls, who are so desperately unhappy.