I am Janice Turner's No 1 fan - another excellent article

[Stopmakingsense]

This one picks up in particular the huge rise in women identifying as men, and the increasing inability of anyone being able to question it:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/even-asking-questions-is-now-transphobic-ztk3rlrfk?shareToken=1f64a5116171eb54a9a866590e6432ec

[MillicentFawcett]

Partially about Mary and partly after a French feminist movement Les Barbes apparently: www.varsity.co.uk/features/5940

A feminist society which rescinds an invitation to a black lesbian for fear of upsetting people who were born male can't really consider itself as women-centring

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

How did they manage to come up with a form of intersectionality in which intersection with being male trans trumps all the others and yet still believe they are feminist?

[Sunkisses]

There was a very good article in the Mail about James Caspian this weekend: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4979498/James-Caspian-attacked-transgender-children-comments.html

[busyboysmum]

Trans woman attacks 10 year old girl in toilets and penetrates her with his penis:

trib.com/news/local/casper/trial-begins-for-casper-resident-charged-with-sexually-assaulting-/article_16c71547-9ea8-53ca-843b-ea9f19628ae3.html

So it never happens.....

[pisacake]

He's also into domestic violence.

trib.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/man-says-girlfriend-beat-him-with-metal-broomstick/article_c8f9fac4-e15e-5a0c-afab-2cdb349ff30b.html
trib.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/casper-police-charge-assault-suspect-with-felony-domestic-battery/article_158fe28c-62b6-5331-9c19-8819de9b9102.html

[JemimaLovesHamble]

Does that get recorded as an act of sexual violence against a child by a woman? I suppose sooner or later it does...

[Rumandraisin1]

Does that get recorded as an act of sexual violence against a child by a woman? I suppose sooner or later it does...

Yes, that'll be recorded as a crime committed by a woman and 'she' and her penis will be moving to a women's prison...

[TalkingintheDark]

I am raging that the crimes of a man like that are reported as being committed by a "woman", the victim's "girlfriend".

But yeah, this never happens.

Did anyone else see a twitter exchange between a right on lefty (male) priest and a gender critical feminist a couple of weeks back? It went something like this:

Him: all trans people are lovely and gentle and probably saints and you're such a horrible bigot for being against them in any way
Her: actually some trans people are violent misogynists who hate, threaten and hurt women so we'd like to be able to keep them out of women only spaces
Him: I don't believe you! Show me the evidence
Her: provides loads of examples of violent, misogynist TIMs
Him: shut up! Why are you telling me this stuff? I don't want to hear it! You horrible bigot for focusing on all this nasty stuff and not participating in the collective delusion like I do! Leave me and my cognitive dissonance ALONE!

And then oc he went straight back to his nice comfortable place of all trans people are lovely and harmless and probably saints, and it's just these wretched bigoted women who after all are THE most privileged people society has ever known and just want to hold onto their privilege at all costs, the power crazed harpies that they are, who are the problem.

It's so fucking depressing.

[TalkingintheDark]

Actually, "leave me and my cognitive dissonance alone" is pretty much the battle cry of the whole transactivist ally movement

[Ereshkigal]

Ooh who was that Talking?

[TalkingintheDark]

He's called Fr Simon Rundell and it was an exchange with Crimson Flax. Sorry no link but if you google it should come up. Obviously I paraphrased somewhat but it was extraordinary how he wouldn't believe it was possible that saintly trans folk could ever be mean (actually CF said it was the ideology that was misogynist and homophobic) and he demanded "citations please"; when CF then obliged with a long list of the requested citations and said something like "there are so many I could go on all night" his only response was a PA "and you are" [sic] and "just because some trans people are horrible doesn't give you an excuse to be horrible too" - just a complete swerve of the issue, total denial that this is something that is real and needs to be addresssed. Just evil. These people who pretend to be good (or even godly) and they are propping up an ideology which is so harmful and toxic and when you challenge them on it and give them the evidence they just shut you down. They don't want to hear.

How the hell did feminists become the new bogeyman among the liberal left? How was that even possible? When did we ever take over the world and run it? When have we ever called the shots, set the agenda, held power? How much of a voice have we ever had? Why is it suddenly so easy for liberals to see feminists as the arch oppressors? The "cis-privileged shitlords" as one young woman so eloquently put it? WTF? Demonising women. Blaming us for all the ills of society. Patriarchy in action.

[nauticant]

Ever since I started thinking about how the trans ideology has been picked up, I've been wondering about feminism and the Left.

If the Left really was feminist then it would be able to see that woman are being thrown under the bus in order to centre men and be willing to do something about this.

We can rationalise this by talking about group-think or whatever but I'm coming to the view that the Left isn't really that bothered about women's rights. The more I read about history the more I'm struck by stuff like trade unions forcing out women where they can. The Left certainly aren't in the clear over the recent disclosures of Weinstein and the fall-out.

I have no doubts that over the past decades feminism has been much more aligned with the Left than with the Right. By I'm less sure now that the Left is feminist in any meaningful sense.

[MillicentFawcett]

The Left is not feminist. I concluded this ages ago (I'm old). Nor is it especially anti-racist. Basically, the Left is about centering white working class men. Actually, quite often it's about centering white middle class men but they'd like to pretend that it's not!

I have never yet voted anything other than Labour but I'm not hopeful about JC given the way that Jess Phillips was treated: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jess-phillips-labour-under-corbyn-feels-like-i-ve-been-locked-out-of-my-home-laura-pidcock-amber-rudd-maria-miller-stella-creasey-jacob-rees-mogg-gs5xp8mh7

I'm not sure the Right are any better - it's Miller and Greening who are trying to drive through the GRA after all

[PricklyBall]

Latest Labour misogyny scandal: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/20/female-labour-mps-condemn-clive-lewis-get-knees-comment-party/

"Female Labour MPs have condemned their colleague Clive Lewis for an 'inexcusable' remark he made at a Momentum event. The MP for Norwich South instructed a male audience member as he stood on the stage: "get on your knees b----".

"Harriet Harman reacted to the video with the comment: "Inexplicable. Inexcusable. Dismayed."

"Meanwhile Stella Creasy admonished: "It's not OK. Even if meant as joke, reinforces menace that men have the physical power to force compliance."

"Jess Phillips MP suggested bringing teenage women to work in order to teach her male colleague about feminism."

Then there's the ongoing anti-semitism (and no, I didn't buy Chakrabarti's whitewash job - I was very disappointed in her, because up till then I'd always admired her as a woman of principle).

[nauticant]

The Right might well be worse MillicentFawcett. But one thing I really struggle with is the hypocrisy.

[Doobigetta]

So angry reading this thread. I was already way past peak trans, but to see all this evidence consolidated here....

A big "thank you" to the posters who linked to Lily Maynard's stuff, though. I hadn't seen it before, and I love it. Absolutely spot on.

[hackmum]

nauticant: "If the Left really was feminist then it would be able to see that woman are being thrown under the bus in order to centre men and be willing to do something about this."

It's very depressing. It's not just the trans issue, it's the issue of prostitution: since when did it become left-wing to insist that women who work as prostitutes do so freely, out of their own volition? Since when has it been left-wing to say that any feminism who complains about the terrible exploitation of women in prostitution is "whorephobic"? Since when has it been left-wing to say that it's fine for women to completely cover up their faces for religious reasons, and to argue otherwise is "Islamophobic"? Since when did it become left-wing to, not only disagree with feminists on trans, prostitution and religious issues, but to actively ban them from speaking publicly about these things? Why is it that the people who are routinely banned from speaking at student events are not racists or fascists or anti-Semites, but feminists?

To put it another way: what the fuck is going on?

[nauticant]

I'd say there are various realignments going on and while this is happening we're seeing through the cracks. We're seeing who the Left is really operating on behalf of (as well as other powerful groups/structures). I actually think we're seeing reality rather than some bizarre departure from the norm.

[Knusper]

To put it another way: what the fuck is going on?

Yes. If someone had told teenage me that, in thirty years time, we would be forced to convince Guardian reading types of the very existence of women as a group descrete from males, I would have laughed in their face.

[Knusper]

nauticant that's depressing but perhaps you're right.

[MsJuniper]

This was in the Evening Standard today:

www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/politicians-are-jumping-on-trans-bandwagon-without-thinking-a3663726.html

[Ereshkigal]

Thanks Talking! Will look it up though I suspect my blood pressure will take a hit!

[Knusper]

That's an excellent article in the Standard.

[Datun]

hackmum

Excellent post. In this millennial generation, soundbites are the norm. We lose too much ‘comprehensive comprehension’.

Actually spelling it out is damned effective.

[Ereshkigal]

Great Standard article!

Trans logic goes that trans people must be accepted on the basis of self-declaration, so women, as a biological class, no longer exists. Gender exists only in our heads. But being a woman is not my chosen identity. It is a material reality that informs my experience of sexual assault and childbirth.