14 year old girl raped in broad daylight

[NoLoveofMine]

Not that any rape in any circumstance isn't horrendous but yet another horrific case, a 14 year old girl raped in a park in the middle of the day. That this kind of thing goes on and receives so little coverage is abhorrent. I'm so angry at the lives of women and girls being ruined like this, because these men choose to attack. I'm not articulating this too well but am just enraged.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/girl-14-raped-london-avery-hill-park-greenwich-teenager-a7949851.html

A young man is unquestionably more likely to get beaten up on a Friday night in a town centre than on a tuesday afternoon, but nobody suggests that young men should not go to town on Friday nights

I don't think anyone whether on here or in the reporting has said that. The report shows that rapes can happen anywhere.

I was responding to the suggestion that it was wrong to be more shocked at a rape happening to a young teenager in broad daylight in a public place, than about one happening late at night or in private, and that this was 'the logic of the patriarchy'.

It is not the logic of the patriarchy, it is the logic of relative risks. It's also the difference between dramatic, newsworthy events and more hidden ones - after 9/11 many people stopped using planes, and some of them ended up dying in car accidents as a result. Not logical, but how human minds process risk.

(sorry, in case that wasn't clear, I mean that the risk of dying in a car accident is many times greater than the infinitesimally tiny chance of dying in a terrorist attack on a plane, so by switching from one form of transport to the other, you up your overall chance of dying.)

The difference between relative and absolute risks are hard to get your head around when the subject is as emotive as 'rape' or 'terror'.
IME many people do not understand that difference.

Rape or any sexual violence against women is far to common place and far too 'accepted' by many. One would hope that it might become less and less acceptable, even at a very low level like wolf-whistling or insistent pestering.

frogsoup Thanks for your post, I was struggling to articulate this. If I find this attack particularly shocking, its not because I have accepted rape as the right of men, or the fault of women.
Its shocking in the sense of when you are thinking about daytime in the park, you aren't thinking about the risk of rape. If I go to the zoo I dont factor in the risk of being mauled by lions.

No one will ever suggest that men, young and old, be constricted in how they go about their business because that's absurd.

However, many will question whether women, young or old should be out and about on their own. Especially after attacks like this, in broad daylight.

The message seems to be how can we save our women, not how can we educate men that such behaviour is disgusting and abhorrent to our very existence as humans.

However, many will question whether women, young or old should be out and about on their own. Especially after attacks like this, in broad daylight.

No they won't, quite clearly women have the right to go wherever they like. And in your case you were safer outside your house than in it .

Let's not forget men also get raped, in fact I heard of an awful, random attack the other day. It might not be as common, but sexual violence happens to both men and women.

A child being sexually assaulted in her home by someone she looks up to as a carer. A 35 year old woman with her small children in the house is raped by her husband - she refused anal sex as an alternative to penile penetration post a recent, three weeks, forceps delivery. A 75 year old woman found in bed with a broken brush handle in her vagina. Shocked and possibly dying due to severe internal and facial injuries as well.

These have all happened. Shocking I know. Now.

What are men going to do about it?

My DP was raped by her husband in very similar circumstances to those you describe, Elendon. (I'm a woman not an invading man - she's from a culture in which being gay is not really accepted and was heavily pressured into the marriage)

To this day, very few people believe her purely because they were married. The amount of "Well you must have done X" and "it must have been so hard for him" she's had is disgusting.

Well assuming that there is no level of sexual abuse that can be acceptable Elendon what about when the perpetrator is in fact a woman? Is it helpful to always put males in the offender role and women in the victim role? Or does this actually have the effect of making it easier for people to blame female victims?

You are derailing Increasinglymiddleaged. Nearly all sexual violence is perpetrated by men and boys against women and girls. It's an epidemic and must be stopped.

No I'm not derailing, I asked a question. My opinion is that no level of sexual abuse is acceptable so of course it must be stopped. My question is whether putting women and females always in the victim role contributes to victim blaming. Sexual violence/ abuse against men and boys is not that rare at all. People who want the same thing being unwilling to discuss wider aspects will not lead to a reduction in sexual violence.

It is women and girls who are at constant risk of male sexual violence, from men and boys known and unknown to us, in public, at home, in schools, at parties, on nights out, during the day, in parks, on the street, everywhere. This horrendous attack is another example of sadly countless instances of this. This is the issue.

No males are also at constant risk in all the same scenarios. It may be a lower risk but the only acceptable level of sexual abuse is zero.

And the question I raised has been ignored in favour of arguing whether male abuse is a problem. Just bizarre

To compare that risk to the risk women and girls face which is constantly shown by instances of abhorrent attacks by men and boys is derailing, which you are clearly intent on doing.

No, you are intent on comparing it not me. No level of sexual abuse is acceptable whether against males or females.

I am asking is promoting rape and sexual abuse as something that only happens to females contributing to victim blaming

Putting men in the victim role also contributes to victim blaming too. Men rape men in this country. Most of those men who are raped are seen as bringing it on themselves.

What should be stopped and the question that should be asked is why do men insist on sex when consent is an issue.

If even some men cannot control themselves and men being the arbiters of law making cannot control the situation, then the time has come for men to be put onto a curfew so that law abiding citizens can go about their daily business. No man should be allowed out after 9pm. No man should be allowed out unless accompanied by a female unless he wears a badge permitting him to go to school/university/work.

That's what I would do if I was Queen for a day.

Increasingly, never once in my life have I read an article where a man has been raped and the comments suggest he was asking for it, or questioning why he was out, or say that he's lying, or suggesting that if he was going to wear shorts, what did he expect? Yet under EVERY SINGLE story I read about a woman being raped, you get such comments. So no, it doesn't contribute to victim blaming if you're male, because men are believed and it's never assumed that they want a dick in them.

In my opinoin victim blaming comes about from simple, good old fashioned sexism.

Either way, the question remains, what are MEN going to do about it?

To add, I find a rape in broad daylight against a child more shocking. Not because it's "worse", but because it reminds us that even in broad day light, when most of us feel relatively safe, were not. I would find a murder, assault, bank robbery or almost any other crime, more shocking if committed during the day. It's brazen.

It always really surprised me that on a thread like this someone will pop up to "what about the men?"
We are talking about a specific incident, where a 14 year old girl was raped by a man. If you want to talk about male rape victims, feel free to start a thread about it

It always really surprised me that on a thread like this someone will pop up to "what about the men?"

Indeed Quentin. It seems nothing can be discussed without this, such is the lack of importance afforded by some to attacks on women and girls.

In my opinoin victim blaming comes about from simple, good old fashioned sexism.

I agree AngelSins. It's another way of shifting the blame away from the men and boys who carry out such attacks and onto women and girls, excusing the perpetrators and suggesting the onus is on women and girls to avoid attack (impossible of course).

My point was about victim blaming and that attitudes like yours are potentially damaging for victims who are in the main female.

I think Quentin and noloveofmine it is actually shocking the attitude that you have to others who actually care enough about the title of the thread/ victims of sexual abuse. It isn't a competition, it is a horrible issue that somehow needs to be eradicated for the sake of victims.

FWIW for the people who sensibly replied, I'm not sure because I have a feeling that many male victims would be in easily marginalised groups so could easily be blamed. It may even be worse.

My attitude is not at all damaging to victims as I believe everyone should be free to live their lives and go about their business free from fear of rape.
It is not victim blaming to discuss a brutal rape of a girl in broad daylight.
I don't believe men face any more stigma as a rape victim than e.g. a child raped by her father, a drunk woman raped by her date, a woman raped by her husband. Why would you think they would?
No-one said being a rape victim was a solely female thing. But the facts are that most victims are women (85,000 women vs 12,000 men according to the ONS) and the rapists are always male (as rape requires a penis).
Stop trying to derail the thread. We are allowed to talk about sexual violence against women.

I was with you quentin until this derailing shit came up again I too am talking about sexual violence of men against women . I think a minority on the thread have chosen not to actually read what I was saying properly and just jump up about daring to mention men. Just bizarre when actually I was looking for a way to change attitudes towards victims who are predominantly female.

And of course it's not victim blaming to talk about the vile brutal rape of a young girl - where is that from? Victim blaming was brought up by others.

So clearly the attack is shocking partly because it reminds us of constant risk. Not least because only letting men out until 9pm on a curfew wouldn't even have stopped it. Or stopped my best friend being abused by her stepfather as I imagine most rapes are domestic.

So accepting that you think that my idea of making it less about females is tosh and wouldn't help what on earth can be done instead?

Your first post said
Let's not forget men also get raped, in fact I heard of an awful, random attack the other day. It might not be as common, but sexual violence happens to both men and women.

Your second post said what about when the perpetrator is in fact a woman?

You are talking about men as victims and claiming by talking about women as victims we are encouraging victim blaming. It's derailing. I am not getting sucked in any more.