Giving up makeup

[NoLoveofMine]

I'm not sure if this is worthy of a thread but wasn't sure where else to put it; quite understandable if it's not of too much interest though...

Having been thinking about this since another thread recently I think I'm going to stop using makeup. This shouldn't really be notable or worthy of announcement, but I was considering that it's something almost exclusively done by girls and women and why I feel the need to use it when I go out yet no boys I know would (even though the boys I'm friends with don't conform to acting in a "masculine" manner they'd still not). There are of course many girls and women who love using makeup - some of my friends are like this, they really enjoy the whole process of it and even see it as a topic to discuss with one another sometimes. However, I have no interest in it, don't watch tutorials, don't discuss it other than from this perspective, yet still use it, purely because I feel I "look better" with it on. Why should any woman or girl feel the need to alter her natural face in this way to look better? I should find nothing wrong with myself pre-makeup and see no need for it. Given this, I'm going to try to stop using it - not remarkable admittedly but I've just been thinking a fair bit recently about it and why I use it. I want to feel very happy with how I look without it, after all. At the moment it feels like I "want" to use it, but only because I think I look better afterwards, so feel better about myself when I have before going out for example, but this shouldn't be the case. I think this is different to wearing skirts/dresses which I often do or even hairstyle because this is something which involves altering/masking your natural face. I suppose this also applies to body hair removal; I shave my legs as well and must confess am not sure this is something I'll stop doing when I know my legs will be visible. I'd like it to be, but it's difficult to rid myself of the feeling that this is a desirable look.

Anyway that was quite possibly of little interest to anyone but myself but ah well, I have a lot of free periods on Fridays. I also didn't mean it to sound self-centred, was more because I was just writing down what I was thinking about myself.

But unfortunately it is not as simple as saying "Well don't feel like that then!" or "If you don't judge men, then don't judge yourself/other women". I find it very hard to escape my own conditioned responses to this kind of thing, and I'm a person who does at least think about my judgements and question them.

Likewise. It's also difficult when you know you may be judged by others. Of course we shouldn't care about what people who judge women and girls in such a manner think, but we're very aware of it because it's so pervasive, we see women and girls being judged and derided for appearance all the time. It's difficult to shake this and the feelings which go with it.

That sounds like a great wedding Rumpeta! I'd have enjoyed that wedding, and I've not enjoyed the two I've been dragged to, but that's another issue In fact weddings are somewhere I generally find the expectations of gendered dressing quite evident, so that one sounds all the better for not having this!

Yes, really endless nonsense from hairdressers. I have "good hair" which somehow means I am obliged to have long swishy princess locks for the good of humanity or something. It's bonkers.

'Short hair is ageing', I see this refrain a lot -and I actually think this is true. My theory is because it's primarily older women (who are released somewhat from their obligations as sex objects) who have short hair, so we recognise it as an age marker.

I think the best defence against this stuff is a strong moral framework that values people for their humanity, not their hairstyle. Of course beautiful people are a pleasure to look at. So is a flower or a mountain (although I do not generally want to fuck mountains :P ). But anyroad, it's not a moral act.

I do think the idea of "upkeep" and "effort" is sometimes partially an attempt to make beauty an act, something one can DO and not just BE. But it's a weak solution imo.

Eloian, lots of men I know are either wearing brightening moisturiser, bit of fake tan or bronzer, tweeze the brows and are slogging it out at the gym. An eminent male criminologist I know, gets his eyelashes perms and tinted. I'll not get into male issues on a feminist thread though!
I also know lots of females, either in a professional capacity or SAHMs from round at the school, who just wear a bit of lip balm.
Giving up makeup for feminist reasons is interesting, as there's the counter argument that lots of women are in employment and supporting their children through makeup and beauty, aswell.

When I was younger I wore much more makeup than I do now. I think it wasn't because I thought it made me look "better", but that I cared about what others, of both sexes, thought I looked like.

Am now in 40s. I wear concealer/foundation/powder to work because it's the social norm and, sadly, IME women who look "better" (slim, make up, clothes) are often treated and do better at work.

I enjoy wearing makeup on occasion to go out at night, for the same reasons I did as a teen: I care (to some extent) what friends / acquaintances think I look like.

I don't dye my hair as it's costly, time consuming and involves damaging and potentially carcinogenic chemicals! It's probably under 5% grey but I've had disapproving comments for this from a number of people of both sexes. Then again, so has DH, who is greyer!

My face feels dirty with make up on. Never really was into it but I stopped wearing it when i had babies as i didnt want it smeared on them or to hold my face away in case they smudged my lipstick. Even now they are older, my 12 year old will come up for a cuddle or a kiss or just to touch my face (yeah he's a bit touchy feely) and i act different, even irrated the odd time I'm wearing some makeup or lipstick. I put my boody make up first and get easily irrated.

Sorry for the drivel - just find the whole make up thing a bit weird,

I do care what friends think I look like (and to be honest do like to "look good" generally) but don't think makeup should be required for this, especially as it's specifically something expected of women and girls. Boys and men aren't expected to wear makeup in any circumstance.

Am now in 40s. I wear concealer/foundation/powder to work because it's the social norm and, sadly, IME women who look "better" (slim, make up, clothes) are often treated and do better at work.

It's this which is of particular annoyance to me. Women being pressured to spend time and money on makeup no matter their personal preferences because of quite probably being treated better because of it, expected to change our natural faces for better treatment or to be considered more presentable.

Whenever I see someone with lots of make up in casual situations, I can't help but wonder how their face must look that they feel the need to paint their faces like that.

Well, perhaps like me - they have multiple red lesions and large mark (morphea) on their upper lip that makes then look as if they have been burnt.

Bit as along as women can now judge women for wearing make-up- it's progress?

Really interesting discussion. I rarely wore make-up in my teens and twenties, gradually started wearing more as I got older, and now, in my mid 40s, wear it all the time, and feel very uncomfortable when I don't.

I think my relationship with clothes and make-up is very different. I'm interested in clothes - I enjoy playing with shapes, colours and textures, and putting together what I think are interesting looks. I can't say for sure, of course, but I think I'd enjoy doing this even if there was less societal expectation for women to care about that stuff.

With make-up, it's much more about looking 'passable'. I'm not really interested in it. It's about disguise and camouflage, whereas, for me, clothes are about expression and play.

Go for it OP! I don't like reading about it, talking about it or get excited by it but I love wearing it. I just like how I look.. more defined and colourful. It makes me happy! It's really not for the benefit of anyone else.
I think in your case the only reason you shouldn't go make-up free is if it will make you feel insecure when going about your life, you shouldn't personally feel shit while trying to solve an unsolveable feminist issue. It doesn't sound like it will affect you like that though!

Why can't women just be their normal selves? Warts and all?

(I'm now angry because my recycling bin wasn't picked up and how the hell am I going to cope with recycling now this has happened?)

I have the basics in makeup and will use it for special events. I use a range that gives a bit of colour, but let's my true self shine through.

I'm not talking about people who need to mask imperfections, that's different.

Yes it sucks and is unfair, but given the social pressures I comply but minimise the expense, time and effort.

Eg mainstream (not tested on animals) foundation/powder, replace every six months or so as only wear about 3 times a week. Other make up keeps ages and ages, except mascara which rarely wear as irritates my eyes.

Why can't women just be their normal selves? Warts and all?

for the same reason all (nearly all) humans like adornment and clothes and jewellery and tattoos and painting their bodies and piercing.

"Why can't women just be their normal selves? "

Well I think the broad feminist analysis is that femininity (the hair, clothes, makeup, heels, dieting, restrictions) is ritualised submission and so women can't be their normal (unadorned) selves as that is an act of defiance. To NOT do femininity is to not submit, and that is fundamentally intolerable under patriarchy.

I love make up iv not wore any in about 2 years though, I only wear it on a night out as I like doing it I don't feel the need to do it for anyone else but me. I don't think I'd bat an eyelid if I never wore it again though. Do what is good for you and who cares what everyone else thinks.

I would also say a lot of ritualised submission is fun and sexy! That's interesting, I think.

Vikings used to wear eyeliner as apparently it made them look more terrifying in battle.

And that's the reason I wear it

With make-up, it's much more about looking 'passable'. I'm not really interested in it.

The same with me; well with me perhaps it's more I think I look "better" with it but it's similar. I dislike the idea of being pressured more to do it as women get older because it suggests natural ageing is something women have to hide. I know many people want to look "young" but it's more evident with women and is also evident in the lack of roles for older women on our screens, be that in terms of presenters or parts in films etc.

Go for it OP! I don't like reading about it, talking about it or get excited by it but I love wearing it. I just like how I look.. more defined and colourful. It makes me happy! It's really not for the benefit of anyone else.

It's great you love it and it brings you enjoyment! There's no doubt many women and girls feel the same, as I've said I know girls who do. However, I'm like you in the sense I don't have any interest in it but also don't really love wearing it although I like how I look with it, but want to love how I look without it. I don't want to feel I look better with it on, if that makes sense.

To NOT do femininity is to not submit, and that is fundamentally intolerable under patriarchy.

That's true, which is probably why many women are mocked and derided for not adhering to the acceptable image of what's deemed "feminine", a societal imposition. Women and girls are also then judged on their appearance and makeup application when using it, of course; no matter what there's negative judgement to be made.

I have male colleagues who are wearing concealer for the same reason as I am, to hide dark circles. I should add the boss who told me to wear it didn't ask me to wear any other make up. I wouldn't survive in an environment where some kind of feminine stereotype was expected.

However, I had an interesting experience with a new team member at that same workplace. A new woman joined and she was very female stereotype in appearance. Another colleague from a different section said to me "it will be interesting to see what effect this has, I bet a lot of women on your team will start changing their appearance if they feel clients react positively to hers".

Within two weeks, women who hadn't been wearing heels or a lot of make up or frilly blouses had started.

This is a reason why I think it becomes an issue. Work smartness evolves. For example I have frizzy hair (which I also cut myself) and if it's not smooth, e.g. on a humid day, there is one current colleague who always says "you didn't do your hair today then". I actually had to ask her to stop making personal remarks generally, she's very rude. But generally I applaud OP decision because I would like to see a change in what's expected of women. And if we want to see it, we have to be it. I don't really want clients thinking I look ill but I don't wear concealer on days with no meetings scheduled, my colleagues know I have insomnia and they just have to deal.

I have had rude people say in shock "you've got grey hair!" It's infuriating but it's clearly happening because so few 40 something women show it. I've also been surprised to find how many women are saying I'm going grey but it's dyed grey and they are using special shampoo etc like we are all supposed to cover up and panic at any sign of ageing.

And if we want to see it, we have to be it.

That's part of my reasoning. I know I'm not going to change anything in particular, let alone culture or societal expectations, or even particularly influence younger girls at school, but I also think it's all very well me lamenting the influence of culture and stating girls shouldn't feel pressured to wear makeup but if I'm doing it myself it's slightly hypocritical (maybe that's too strong but along those lines). I want to be able to tell younger girls should it come up that they don't need to wear makeup and that I don't myself - not that this will lead to them not doing so but hopefully might help them question why they should feel they have to. This would be in the context of them bringing it up for example if it's discussed in the feminist group which meets rather than me bombarding them with unsolicited comments of course!

What you said about the impact of the woman who joined your work o the other women is interesting as well Slimthistime. It's a shame in a way as she did nothing wrong in choosing to dress/appear as she did but that the impact on other women has been to perceive clients as reacting more positively to her (or to see they were doing so) and feeling the need to dress in a manner they weren't choosing to. It's this pressure which annoys me, women feeling compelled to wear makeup, wear uncomfortable footwear and so on. I also hope you're doing alright with your insomnia and dealing with it in the best way for you.

I've only ever really done full make up when I was experimenting as a teen (think riot grrrl bright red lips), since then I've only ever worn a bit of eyeliner and sometimes mascara. I havent got great skin, and I look best when I don't have a moustache or uni brow (I am a hairy latina) - so that's probably more of an issue to me than wearing a lot of make up. I look tired without eyeliner, and people have told me so (to which I reply "no I'm fine, I'm just not wearing any make up today!")

What I find quite sad is when women feel they have to do a proper full on painted face on their wedding day, often done by a make up 'artist'. I have a close friend who had this done and looked a bit 'drag queen', as did her bridesmaids who had the same painted on look. Just really sad, as you end up not even looking like yourself on your wedding day! I think it's a bit of a myth it's necessary 'for the photos' as well. Perhaps back in the day, but digital film is a different beast and captures faces differently. I wore very little on my wedding day (eyeliner in 2 colours and mascara, a bit of tint on lips and cheeks) and I don't look 'washed out' at all in the photos (not a stealth boast!)

I wouldn't necessarily give up make up as I don't wear it every day (for a special event or if I look particularly tired) and I spend so little on it (£15 a year - absolute tops) and more importantly I don't feel like I need to wear it for myself or for anyone else. My Mum and sister don't wear make up either.

@JessicaEccles well if it was good enough for the vikings...!

I'm sure you looked fantastic on your wedding day and every day LittleWingSoul. It's great to hear of you spending minimal amounts on it and not often using it, as well as your mum and sister not using it. It's frustrating that people make comments about you apparently "looking tired" just because you don't have eyeliner on when people would rarely if ever think a man looked tired with his natural face.

and more importantly I don't feel like I need to wear it for myself or for anyone else.

This is definitely most important and the mindset I want to have.

I very rarely wear make up, only for a big night out. I never have really. Started at school because I struggle to get up so would rather spend the extra time in bed! Now I feel self conscious if I do wear make up, like I look weird and people will notice.

My skin looks good for my age and that could be genes or could be not covering it in gop. I also use silicone free moisturiser to help it breath and it's much better than it was.

I really resent the time and money women are expected to put into being acceptable society and would love it if more people went bare faced.

Fwiw when I do see people I know unmade-up I always think they look better.