Giving up makeup

[NoLoveofMine]

I'm not sure if this is worthy of a thread but wasn't sure where else to put it; quite understandable if it's not of too much interest though...

Having been thinking about this since another thread recently I think I'm going to stop using makeup. This shouldn't really be notable or worthy of announcement, but I was considering that it's something almost exclusively done by girls and women and why I feel the need to use it when I go out yet no boys I know would (even though the boys I'm friends with don't conform to acting in a "masculine" manner they'd still not). There are of course many girls and women who love using makeup - some of my friends are like this, they really enjoy the whole process of it and even see it as a topic to discuss with one another sometimes. However, I have no interest in it, don't watch tutorials, don't discuss it other than from this perspective, yet still use it, purely because I feel I "look better" with it on. Why should any woman or girl feel the need to alter her natural face in this way to look better? I should find nothing wrong with myself pre-makeup and see no need for it. Given this, I'm going to try to stop using it - not remarkable admittedly but I've just been thinking a fair bit recently about it and why I use it. I want to feel very happy with how I look without it, after all. At the moment it feels like I "want" to use it, but only because I think I look better afterwards, so feel better about myself when I have before going out for example, but this shouldn't be the case. I think this is different to wearing skirts/dresses which I often do or even hairstyle because this is something which involves altering/masking your natural face. I suppose this also applies to body hair removal; I shave my legs as well and must confess am not sure this is something I'll stop doing when I know my legs will be visible. I'd like it to be, but it's difficult to rid myself of the feeling that this is a desirable look.

Anyway that was quite possibly of little interest to anyone but myself but ah well, I have a lot of free periods on Fridays. I also didn't mean it to sound self-centred, was more because I was just writing down what I was thinking about myself.

I can't help it when I do judge. Not horribly judging, just thinking insecure. Sorry.

NoLove She is 22 and has no intentions of ever shaving her legs. (They really are lovely, and you don't notice them).

You don't notice her hairs! Her legs are long and lean and very much noticeable!

NoLoveofMine Thanks
I dont think its always as simple as just stopping. It might take a gradual process to reduce how much you wear, or when you wear it. I think you need to feel comfortable about not wearing it, and confident about being seen without it.
Its a huge issue and definitely needs talking about.

Sorry I meant to say Elendon in that last post. Even better to hear she's 22 and never shaved her legs, I'm certain they look great!

I don't agree with judging women no matter how much makeup they might be wearing. Not only are there huge societal pressures to do so but some will enjoy it and be doing it for themselves.

I'm also not judging you for judging just mean there are many factors which could be influencing any individual woman wearing whatever level of makeup.

Definitely DJ. I want to stop wearing it at all day to day but also when socialising. I don't think it's right that I should feel the need to do it to look "good" when socialising when no boys I know would. There should be nothing stopping me feeling comfortable and loving how I look without it.

Thanks for this thread. I experimented a little 30 odd years ago (when I was a Jackie reader!) But I quickly realised I wasn't interested, it was a chore. I don't own any now.
Anyway was beginning to feel a bit concerned about my inadequacy in case DD (12)wants advice in the future. It really helps what a pp said about football. I will see it as no different to knitting or other traditional 'women's skills' I can't teach her.

I don't agree with judging women based on any of their choices, certainly don't equate heavy makeup with insecurity. To me, it just means that person has a love and passion for wearing it, and I admire the artistry that goes into it. It takes confidence to pull off certain looks especially when they know that other women are looking at them, forming silly judgements such as dismissing them as insecure in order to make themselves feel like they've had some big epiphany that no one else knows about.

My 'real' face is my face with make-up. That's the face I want to see in the mirror. It's not about what other people think. (And hasn't everyone had that tedious boyfriend who goes 'But you look so much better without it' )

But a lot of my friends don't wear any make-up, or only when they dress up. And we don't judge each other. And it's horrible to assume a woman is INSECURE - perhaps she just loves a bit of slap.

You definitely have nothing to be concerned about clearsommespace. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if my mum didn't wear makeup (if anything I'd probably prefer it) and household skills she can teach us include changing plugs as well as being able to sew

This thread is/was quite clearly also not about judging anyone and I made it very clear that I was discussing it with regards to myself and why I wear makeup and want to stop.

But a lot of my friends don't wear any make-up, or only when they dress up. And we don't judge each other.

This is the case with my friends and I and most groups of girls/women I've heard of. We wear varying levels of it and only compliment one another. I know if I stopped wearing any at all I'd only receive support from friends.

Beadieeye, you surely don't think that all women who wear lots of make-up do it because they have a passion for it? I certainly don't think all women with heavy make-up are insecure, but I am sure many are. And not necessarily just those with heavy make-up. I said upthread- I wear make-up because I think I look psty and rubbish without it. What is that if not insecurity about my looks? I shoupd think most women wear make-up fir similar reasons, rather than a passion for it.

And yes, some men wear make-up (though none that I know), but the point is that there is no expectation that they should wear it.

Women in many workplaces are expected (even if this isn't always official) to wear high heels and 'make an effort' with their appearance on a level which is totally different from what is expected of men. Many women may actually feel they are harming their career opportunities by not conforming to the glamorous standards of their co-workers. This is blatantly unfair and sexist.

Whenever I see someone with lots of make up in casual situations, I can't help but wonder how their face must look that they feel the need to paint their faces like that.

That said, I enjoy using light makeup to smooth my face. I hate how much it costs: I have a much paler skin than most of the population, and so far the only male up that doesn't make me look like a clown is Mac.

Ideally, I would like to wear daily a tinted sunscreen. Now I just have to find one that fits me...

Women in many workplaces are expected (even if this isn't always official) to wear high heels and 'make an effort' with their appearance on a level which is totally different from what is expected of men. Many women may actually feel they are harming their career opportunities by not conforming to the glamorous standards of their co-workers. This is blatantly unfair and sexist.

Absolutely. It's appalling workplaces can still in some circumstances insist on women wearing makeup and/or high heels. Added to that many women feel they should wear them at work or for interviews because it's a safer option. Expectations there would never be on men.

Eolian, I was responding to a poster who said they judge women who wear heavy makeup!

I wear make-up all the time, even if only to put the bins out. I've done so since I was around 13, even to school.

I find make-up empowering, but I'm not sure why that is. I certainly feel pressured into wearing it, but I think most of that pressure comes from myself. I dislike my thin-lipped, piggy-eyed self.

I'm older, and I think older women DO become invisible and disempowered as they get older. I think that's why I cling on to my makeup-I feel less invisible with it on.

I think it may be something to do with my upbringing too. My mother once told me I could be pretty "if I tried" and that's kind of stuck with me thanks mam. Since then, I've always associated attractiveness with "trying" and making an effort.

I don't judge judge, I just think, wow heavy makeup, must be insecure about their looks (and often these women look gorgeous anyway).

It makes me feel when I see them that I have to step up to a certain 'standard', though thankfully I'm lazy in the makeup department (plus I think it's way too expensive - I'd rather put money towards my pension).

Beadieeye - yes, I know you were responding to a particular post But this is a general discussion thread about why we wear make-up and what we think about it. I think we are all allowed to comment on opinions given in any posts! I agree that we should try not to judge women on their use of make-up (I said so upthread). You said that to you, someone wearing heavy make-up is someone who has a passion for it. So I asked if you really felt that all women who wear heavy make-up do so because they have a passion for it.

That's interesting buggerthebotox (I like the name ). I think this: I've always associated attractiveness with "trying" and making an effort. is something which is internalised quite early by many girls. This is also down to comments we overhear so frequently about how "she could have made an effort" or "she'd look good if she made an effort", also general media commentary on women's appearances, judgement always made no matter what, we swiftly learn our natural selves aren't enough and we need to "make an effort" which for girls/women means apply makeup, wear certain clothing, remove body hair and so on. It's all quite pervasive, along with us being fed messages which tell us our primary worth is our apparent aesthetic appeal, particularly to men.

Eloian, generally, no. I think the ones who wear ALOT of makeup wouldn't take the time or effort to apply it unless they enjoyed it. I wear loads, but I'm also really happy with how I look barefaced.
Ironically, I think some women who use this reasoning and yet wear a bit themselves, to make themselves feel 'passable' are more insecure. Because they don't particularly enjoy it but feel they need a light covering cause they look a bit tired or pasty without it, like you said (I think, sorry, it won't let me refer back to the thread whilst typing this out).
Now that's a bit paradoxical. If you wouldn't judge a man for looking a bit tired, then don't judge yourself, and in turn, other women (I'm using 'you' generally here).

I don't wear it, even for job interviews. And I don't colour my hair (in fact I cut my own hair). I don't wear heels. I do have a collection of clingy dresses, demure skirts etc that signal femininity and I wear those when I need to. I'm realistic about this tbh. Sometimes I want to please others or I want something from them and this stuff makes a big difference. It DOES. You pay a price for not doing it. And it's never enough! Even when I was doing mega-conformance in my late teens and modelling, for heaven's sake, I was still being disapproved of for not, whatever, I don't even know, not exfoliating or dieting or eyebrow plaiting or whatever.

So it's never enough. You may as well do as you like, and conform strategically when it suits you.

I have had very very short hair most of my life and that really irks people. Still get a ton of pushback on that, though it decreases as I age. Tons of weird comments from blokes about the kind of person I am based on my hair, lots of disapproval from elderly female rellies... I have had people stop me in the street and tell me off for my hairstyle. In fact I cut my own hair because I got so much disapproval from hairdressers, the fools! God, it's only hair. I think it's ridiculous.

The headspace stuff about feeling unpretty or unworthy - I am happy to pay that price - actually I welcome the opportunity of conquering it - it makes me feel powerful. It's so trivial. But the material costs of things like lost jobs, I am not always prepared to pay that price. (I don't think this is a feminist CHOICE, putting on the wiggle dress. But understanding why someone might do that is a feminist analysis.)

Great post Zoloh. I can see what you mean about conforming strategically - it's something it annoys me women and girls have to do at times, but it sounds as if you're doing it ideally. Not wearing makeup or heels because you don't want to - I have more issues with them than dresses because makeup is changing your natural appearance and heels are uncomfortable for many women and girls as well as having the potential to cause long term damage and both are expected specifically of them. Whilst dresses are considered "feminine" I find them different because they're "just" an item of clothing (though don't think they should be gendered).

Your hair sounds great I have always had long hair and also know part of my reasoning is societal, although I feel I prefer myself with it - though a reasonable number of girls at school do have short hair (significantly in a minority it must be said). As you say, some choices aren't feminist choices. They're just choices which aren't made in a vacuum - whilst not being feminist, they don't negate one's feminism either.

I was told by a male hairdresser that my choice of pixie cut (how demeaning) wasn't suitable for me because I was late twenties!

The best hair cut I ever had was a short cut hairstyle in my teenage years. I cut off all my long hair. I've never grown it as long again - too much maintenance! I keep it just below neckline now.

When I go totally grey, the short back and sides is going to happen - wishes

Now that's a bit paradoxical. If you wouldn't judge a man for looking a bit tired, then don't judge yourself, and in turn, other women (I'm using 'you' generally here).

Well exactly! Unfair, isn't it? What I am lamenting is the fact that I (like many women) judge myself for looking a bit tired, and see it as something I have to 'fix' with make-up, which a man wouldn't.

But unfortunately it is not as simple as saying "Well don't feel like that then!" or "If you don't judge men, then don't judge yourself/other women". I find it very hard to escape my own conditioned responses to this kind of thing, and I'm a person who does at least think about my judgements and question them. There's a whole world full of people who are making these judgements about themselves and other people and not even questioning it, because we cannot help how we were brought up or how the world has shaped our views. We can try, of course.

I'm enjoying reading this thread!

I just want to add that I was at a bit of a hippy wedding recently where a lot of the female guests did not seem to be wearing make-up, nor were they wearing heels or tights (and many weren't wearing bras either!). Several of them had hair that hair that clearly hadn't been straightened or styled - it was just kind of loose and wild. They looked amazing. Strong and happy and confident. Feminine and capable. I was totally in awe.

I also found myself wondering whether I'd have been as awestruck by just one woman at that wedding dressing/presenting themselves in that way. I think it was the power of so many women together that really made an impression on me.