Why are feminists so aggressive?

[BertrandRussell]

This, or something like it, it always being asked. People say that the FWR board on here is scary and hounds out people whose faces don't fit. That women are always being told they can't be feminists if.......And so on. And so on.

In my experiences, you are much more likely to get an aggressive response if you express a feminist point of view than the other way round. Is it just me? Or am I missing something?

There have been plenty of interesting feminists threads recently, where everyone seems to be holding their own- but the same old accusations keep coming up.

Hey Phony I have found that Vestal is angry like I am, obviously can't speak on her behalf.

But I am raising young men here, a few of which have no family relationship to me at all, but they know I'm there for them. Basically after my stepson was killed last year I tend to have a house filled with young confused men. All through the week.

I think it's perfectly possible to be absolutely furious and also care about the young men in my life and respect the male relatives I have who are good men. And the young men I deal with still turn up at my door despite my feminist rage so I'm obviously doing something right.

The chavs have taken over Mumsnet feminist boards tonight! or one chave (me!) at least. I have absolutely no qualifications at all having left school at 15, and maybe I get things mixed up and can't always follow the thread, but that doesn't put me off posting here. I love being in the company of seriously clever women.

I realised this while dealing with my solicitor and barristers while trying to get away from my abusive ex. I just love the company of really clever educated women. Maybe because there are so many strong women in my family.

Anyway I might not always get the point but I'm still going to make my point, you get me?

So feminists are never allowed to be angry or sound angry or disagree
With any other women or be anything but supportive all other women? How the fuck does that work?

If you read my comment again. You will see I never said anything about wether you should be, or shouldn't be. Or whether you are allowed to be, or not. the question was..

Why are feminist so aggressive?

I merely answered the question as to why some may view feminist or this board as such. If you are Angry, people will notice and say your angry. no matter what the reason is
Think your response is actually an example of what some may be talking about when they ask the question above.

Do you mean me Pear?

I am very angry yes.

I think Pear is referring specifically to Bertrand 's reply.

No, sorry, I was replying to bertrandrussell

Oh ok x

Well ok I have said it a few times but I am not rude or aggressive but as soon as I say I'm a feminist people assume I am.

Pear so it's like a "fight club" scenario? The only way not to be thought aggressive as a feminist is never to express anger about anything, or be anything but unfailingly supportive to other women, even if you fundamentally disagree with them? In other words, to not mention being a feminist!

Thephoneywar - Issues that make me angry? I wouldn't say any issues make me angry.

So no changes are needed in society? All the battles are won? What is feminism for in your opinion? I see from earlier in the thread you say you are a liberal feminist - if you don't believe change is needed, why even bother adopting the feminist label at all?

We could talk about the disproportionate effects of climate change on women or the disproportionate effects of poverty on women if you like - those are reasons to be angry.

How about FGM?

My point is very very simple

If you are angry, you acknowledge you are angry, do not be surprised that others acknowledge it too.

You can't be angry, even enraged, and simultaneously be perplexed as to why anyone would ever perceive this, and find it aggressive or intimidating. It's illogical.

Now if the actual problem is, you do not like being perceived as angry or aggressive. There is little you can do about this.

It's either, you are angry, and feel you have just cause to be, and so your attitude is. "damn right I'm angry, and I make no apologies for it." While understanding people will perceive your anger, and may find it intimidating and aggressive. And so be it. Learn not to care.

Or you are angry, feel you have just cause to be, but still don't want to be viewed as such.
If this is the case, the only way to be viewed differently is to portray yourself differently. Decide how you would like to be viewed, and work at how you can portray this when communicating.
This doesn't just apply to feminism, but anyone, in any area of life, where public perception is your concern. including fighting for human rights.

The problem is, pear, that a woman who calmly states that she's not happy with something (or even a woman who just 'doesn't take a joke', ie roll over and be disrespected) is often perceived as 'angry' and the 'angry' accusation is used as a way to dismiss her as over-emotional, aggressive, abrasive etc etc.

I've been in situations where a man was literally screaming and shouting and yet I was the one considered to have inflamed the situation, even though I was speaking completely calmly. Women are expected to smile, smooth things over, being super nice and kind all the time. IME any time that I've simply stood my ground and haven't fawned over a man's brilliance I've been perceived as angry, humourless, aggressive, uncooperative etc etc. Of course men throwing cups, having a complete tantrum are just expressing themselves.

Pear- can I just check. You said that my post "So feminists are never allowed to be angry or sound angry or disagree with any other women or be anything but supportive all other women? How the fuck does that work?" was an example of the sort of thing that made people think feminists are aggressive. Is it the "fuck" that's the problem, or the sentiment?

Can I just say here we used to get told to read some books and then come back. That doesn't happen much any more which is a good thing.

I lurk like mad on here, its great to have oneself challenged even if the challenger doesn't know they're challenging folk. And that's a good thing, too.

All in all, no not aggressive.

I still feel a bit stupid sometimes but that's no bad thing!

As you were.

Me too sparrow. Its fucking annoying. In my case apparently it was my body language that was causing the problem.....

I've just read a thread on AIBU full of posters telling eachother they're pathetic, disgusting, making personal remarks about their parenting skills and generally getting enraged with one another.

And it's all very personal.

People on here do get angry, and very occasionally make personal remarks. But it's certainly not confined to here, and from what I can tell, it's really not as bad.

I think that there's a difference between anger and aggression.
You can be both calm and angry.
You get more done that way.

Datun- your post really sums up the oddness of this whole situation. Compared to many other places on Mumsnet, FWR is the mildest, politest of places. But the myth prevails.

BertrandRussell

It's probably a lot to do with a certain minimum level of knowledge, that tends to occur on these boards.

Feminism and equality, including raising children is something that almost every parent has an opinion about. Naturally.

So if something comes up on here, and they give their opinion, they might get a lot of individual posters disagreeing, purely because of their wider knowledge. It's not patronising, or elitist, just factual.

But there is a peculiar touchpaper that gets lit when discussing feminism. Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, people still get very entrenched in their views. Because that is what their life looks like. Which is the point of feminism, ironically.

Just look at the shaving threads.

People insist, because of what their life looks like, that it's a personal issue. Feminism says it isn't. They maintain it is...which proves the point of feminism.

I sometimes think that feminism takes a long time to sink in. More than many other issues.

I sometimes think that feminism takes a long time to sink in. More than many other issues.

I agree.

And it can be an assault on your being when the rose tinted glasses begin to fall. It's a horrid reality that you have to face. Some replace the tint with full on black out, others go with variables, many know the lens can never be replaced.

And for those of us who have been feminists since we were knee high to a grasshopper, societal pressures, inequalities, unfairness etc. is so blindingly obvious that we (I, for one certainly) cannot even begin to understand how others fail to see it. I'm sure this exasperation leads to some of the so-called "aggression" FWR is accused of - a sort 'how on earth can you not see what is going on?' moment FFS.

To give an analogy: supposing you were waiting to cross the road with a friend and there is a car coming as your friend starts to step out. You say 'mind the car' and the friend says 'what car?'

whoputthecatout and Elendon

I agree with both your posts.

I acquired late onset feminism. I had clearly been suffering the symptoms for years, but hadn't diagnosed the disease.

It's quite true, once the goggles are off, they're off. Dots everywhere get connected in a big rush.

It's like suddenly looking through the matrix. Unavoidable.