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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender "neutral" school uniform

124 replies

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 06/09/2017 18:47

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/06/school-bans-skirts-make-uniform-gender-neutral-transgender-students/

Except it isn't. It just bans girls wearing skirts.

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ITCouldBeWorse · 06/09/2017 23:15

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NoLoveofMine · 06/09/2017 23:18

This tripe about "decency" is exasperating. Bad enough when such terms are applied when discussing women let alone girls.

Stinkbomb · 06/09/2017 23:25

My DD(4) refuses to wear trousers. She's just started school but would have hated having to wear trousers as the uniform instead of a dress/skirt, fgs what's the problem - they're kids and shouldn't need to feel ashamed or inhibited about their clothing/ uniform while at school - especially primary.

AssassinatedBeauty · 06/09/2017 23:45

This school hasn't "added" a gender neutral uniform, they've removed an option from girls. The guff about decency was very ill advised. It irritates me that the Mermaids spokes person ignored that aspect completely.

NoLoveofMine · 06/09/2017 23:50

In my opinion it goes beyond ill advised. It's legitimising that view which is damaging enough when held about women let alone girls (not that the former is remotely acceptable either). Girls going to school being labelled "indecent" and the subject of complaints regarding some of their skirt lengths by people in the "wider community"? Not only this but everyone seemingly accepting this unquestioningly and the Head legitimising it further.

Minibirdyay · 07/09/2017 00:20

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AssassinatedBeauty · 07/09/2017 00:25

Presumably you're not being compelled to wear trousers on pain of disciplinary action?

Minibirdyay · 07/09/2017 00:31

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AssassinatedBeauty · 07/09/2017 00:45

It is "fair" in that sense, in that there is only one choice of uniform item for boys and girls. Skirts are a normal item of dress for girls/women, many girls prefer wearing a skirt to trousers. To try and resolve a uniform issue by removing a perfectly normal item of clothing from the uniform code seems like a massive overreaction.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 07/09/2017 00:50

I'm sceptical about vulvas being flashed.

The school can hardly be expected to enforce skirt length outside of school premises

What the girls wear off school premises and outside school hours has nothing to do with the school. It is not the school's role to kow tow to the "members of the community" phoning to complain.

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Minibirdyay · 07/09/2017 07:03

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enoughisenough12 · 07/09/2017 09:03

And I regularly see young men with their bottoms hanging out of their low slung trousers or men (and women) bending over with their arses hanging out of their jeans. Haven't noticed anyone legislating against that - but teenage girls are always fair game for a bit of shaming it seems to me Sad

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/09/2017 09:28

If I ran a school the students would all dress for comfort in tracksuit style uniforms so they could focus on learning and not on feeling uncomfortable, restricted by silly ties and the like and focussing on making sure that bits don't show.

As for skirts v. trousers, I can remember the pressure at school to dress in ways that emphasised either femininity or fuckability - girls dressed to please boys essentially and boys dressed how they damn well pleased. This is as equally restrictive in many ways.

terrylene · 07/09/2017 09:44

Our school banned skirts years ago. They were fed up of wasting teaching time by enforcing skirt length against current trends (if you remember the microskirt with the small split up the side and fishnets?) and the girls came under considerable peer pressure to wear short skirts, whether they wanted to or not and most of them resorted to wearing cycle shorts as well.

While they were at it they got rid of the shirts, that dangled out over the skirts and trousers of both boys and girls and the much abused ties.

They replaced it all with practical stretchy non iron stuff that you could cycle to school in, crawl on the floor in drama and move about with without restriction.

Chucking out time, they all looked far tidier Wink Of course you do not get that stiff starched look, with white shirts and kilts and done up ties and tucked in shirts with fancy blazers that people seem to desire in an attempt to emulate private schools. That was only realistic if you pick out the right children for speech day or something.

This was all done before my DDs started the school and they have long since left, so it is nothing new. And nothing 'gender neutral' appeasing about it.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/09/2017 10:07

And nothing 'gender neutral' appeasing about it

Exactly.

NoLoveofMine · 07/09/2017 11:11

Haven't noticed anyone legislating against that - but teenage girls are always fair game for a bit of shaming it seems to me

I think it happens to women as well but very much agree teenage girls seem to be specific targets for this kind of talk. There's something I find very unpleasant about it; adults feeling it acceptable to comment on and judge teenage girls in this manner so freely. Another example of the misogynistic attitudes towards teenage girls which pervade through society.

ArcheryAnnie · 07/09/2017 11:22

Actual gender neutral would be keeping the same uniforms and letting every kid wear whatever they want from the whole list, and having the same rules for both boys and girls. Not defaulting to what they have previously deemed the male uniform.

(I hate skirts and never wear them, but if any kid, girl or boy, wants to wear them, they should fill their boots.)

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 07/09/2017 12:44

And nothing 'gender neutral' appeasing about it

Er, yes. That is my point. It is not gender neutral.

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/09/2017 12:52

It is not intended to be 'gender neutral' for neutrality's sake. It is intended to be about practicality and comfort.

Plus, in this, we are forgetting how much pressure there is for girls to conform to some sort of stereotypical femininity, whether this is the 'adult' version (naice girls in naice skirts all demure) or the 'youth' version (girls dressing essentially in ways that make them sexy to please boys).

Beyond this, trousers are only masculine if we accept that gender stereotype. I don't.

MiddleagedManic · 07/09/2017 13:00

I'm with Karatekitten on this.

I don't get up everyday and put trousers or jeans on and think or feel repressed that I am wearing 'male' clothes, I am just wearing what's comfy and/or practical for the day.

I do however question myself if need to 'dress up' for something and think 'must be a dress or skirt' because that's what society has told me I should wear to look pretty or sexy (ie to appeal to men).

MiddleagedManic · 07/09/2017 13:01

YesAnotherSpartacus - yup.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 07/09/2017 13:25

Good for all of you. Is it impossible for you to imagine not everyone feels the same as you?

Plenty of schools manage perfectly well with allowing girls the choice without the need to make judgemental comments about "decency". The school my son was at now allows girls to wear trousers instead of the kilt which was their traditional uniform. As far as I can tell very few have taken up the option but you would be happy to force them to for no reason other than you don't like skirts.

I don't get up everyday and put trousers or jeans on and think or feel repressed that I am wearing 'male' clothes, I am just wearing what's comfy and/or practical for the day

I hate wearing trousers and jeans. I don't find them in the least bit comfortable. There is no allowance for winter or summer temperatures. The only times I've ever had thrush were when I wore jeans or trousers.

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/09/2017 13:27

Good for all of you. Is it impossible for you to imagine not everyone feels the same as you

Is this possible for you, Lass?

And beyond this, none of us latter posters were referring to 'decency'.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 07/09/2017 13:36

Poster minibirdjaywas harping on about flashing vulvas. The tone about "fuckability" is depressing- as if that were the only reason for wanting not to wear trousers.

Mothers of daughters were quoted that their daughters were very unhappy at this.

Is this possible for you, Lass?

Not following your point. I'm not the one seeking to deny the girls a choice or supporting that denial.

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FunnysInLaJardin · 07/09/2017 13:45

DS1 has just started secondary school and the uniform is trousers shirt and blazer for boys and girls. It isn't gender neutral but makes a great deal of sense to me.

No issues with rolling skirts up, which according to secondary teacher DH is a PITA to constantly enforce. And no complaints from the boys that the girls get to wear skirts etc in the hot weather and they can't. They all wear PE shorts and top if its hot.

I really have no issue with it at all.

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