Susan Nicholson case - heartbreaking

[HeatedCatFurniture]

I've read bits about this before but this article sets it all out in detail.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/28/the-police-knew-another-girl-had-died-in-his-bed-robert-trigg-susan-nicholson

It's appalling. Those poor women, those poor families - and that elderly couple, spending years and £££ bashing their heads against a brick wall of indifference from the police.

And so many of the officers named in the article are women, too.

Rod has made this thread all about him/herself not the original point, which was about the police failing to investigate the murder of a woman.
I think that speaks volumes personally

Ironic how Rod failing to see what the real issue is on this thread so aptly illustrates the mindset that the woman who's been murdered and whose very murder was overlooked, is not the the most important thing going on.

That's why I gave up on this thread earlier on.

It's a pity. Somewhere in here there was a cracking thread where we could have explored the failures around the investigation of Susan Nicholson's death, and how feminist analysis and police investigative procedure could intersect...but I don't think anyone's got anything they wanted out of the thread. Rod feels aggrieved that they've been picked on, and other posters feel like Rod has amply demonstrated the lack of understanding and empathy within the police for patterns of male violence towards women. A real shame.

I haven't rtft but I just want to thank OP for sharing the article. It's so important that we keep reading these stories and talking about these women who are failed over and over again. A violent relationship with a misogynist was just the beginning of a dearth of injustices. Well done to her parents for campaigning against such indifference about women's lives.

Where have I (that's me not you to avoid any further confusion on your part ) said rules don't need to be followed?

when you said Now some forces may do it slightly differently but it usually goes something like this;

Yay! Stage 2. Spelling and punctuation. Some devastating counter arguments from you there.

Well you have already ignored everything else.

I understand you don't like the police. Not many suspects do....

I have NEVER committed a crime.

I don't even have points on my driving licence, I ever have id 30+ years.

And my first post I said, "There are a lot of police who make judgments about people based on sex, race, where they live, family."

And bang here we are judgement. I'm at fault because a thug in a uniform decided to arrest me for a crime that doesn't exist - but that's OK. Fine for someone to make something up, fine for him to not even know what an IP address is, not bother to investigate, not bother to interview before deciding he will issue a caution.

BTW I know a few people are saying, "ignore" I actually think I'd like to send this thread to the local police commissioner.

As for literacy - it matters, or it should matter. Using affect instead in effect can make a huge difference in a case, and you should care about it.

One of the worrying things about Rod is how he has lumped us all together, is firmly on a very aggressive position towards of us because he feels aggrieved and picked on. I asked a question Rod could not answer, very politely (others picked it up and asked him to answer it too, but he ignored it). I then said I think we should discuss this without him, as he isn't really up to the conceptual level of much of the discussion here, and I also mentioned his quite severe lack of social skills (this is all just fact). At no point did I insult him, attack him, talk to him in any immoderate way. And what came back to me was an utterly bizarre insult about my (imagined) physical looks as a teenager! Clearly he's feeling so attacked that he is less than ever capable of thinking straight. That's a very worrying trait. A sense of being beleauguered, "there's all against me", leading straight to physical / looks based / sexual insults: this is straight out of the book of classic irrational misogyny.

this is worrying. Imagine if a mouthy sex worker got into trouble, tried to get police help, someone dropped the ball a bit and her friends tried to get police attention. Imagine if Rod was the person managing how much and what sort of attention these women were to get. It sends shivers down my spine.

when you said Now some forces may do it slightly differently but it usually goes something like this

And how is that evidence of me saying rules don't need to be followed? I was generalizing a procedure. There's 43 police forces. I haven't worked for all of them. I can't for example state for a fact how Cumbria police may do it. It's not laid down in law/covered by PACE. So I have a general over view

*I understand you don't like the police. Not many suspects do....

I have NEVER committed a crime.*

But you were arrested for one? You say you are innocent of that offence, I don't know if you did it or not. Still doesn't change the fact that people who have been suspects don't tend to like the police

One of the worrying things about Rod is how he has lumped us all together, is firmly on a very aggressive position towards of us because he feels aggrieved and picked on. I asked a question Rod could not answer, very politely

I could answer your question just fine. I chose not to because as I said in earlier posts to another poster, I wanted my question from Elendon answered first. I had questions fired at me from all angles and I thought it was only fair I got a reply for my own. I've been reading this board for years, although rarely contributed. I've seen it time and again where a poster defends a position that the board doesn't like and there's a pile on. Then insults. Then name calling until that poster leaves the thread. I'm not going to. I'll happily give it back.

this is worrying. Imagine if a mouthy sex worker got into trouble, tried to get police help, someone dropped the ball a bit and her friends tried to get police attention. Imagine if Rod was the person managing how much and what sort of attention these women were to get. It sends shivers down my spine.

Completely different kettle of fish between my private life and professional.

Read the report and found it horrific.
Those poor families.
Stopped reading the thread when I saw it was turning out to be all about rod.
Just thought that if rod is representing the police force maybe they should change their name as it would be seen as in very poor taste if any of Rod Hulls family were on here.

But you were arrested for one? You say you are innocent of that offence, I don't know if you did it or not.

Considering

a) it didn't happen
b) it was supposed to have happened in Europe
c) using a computer in Australia
d) while I was in America

You'd have to be crazy or incredibly stupid to think I did it. Or in the police.

Rod, what would you have done differently to the police officers in the opening post?

Genuine question.

Rod, I have only ever had postive interactions with the police. I've never had so much as a speeding ticket, so I've absolutely no axe to grind. My starting position is that I trust the police. I really don't know where you're getting this sense of persecution from.

I still think the conversation could be made productive if you wanted it to be, I really do.

I still think the conversation could be made productive if you wanted it to be, I really do

Well in that case I'd like to apologise first of all to Antigrinch. I unloaded to her rather unfairly yesterday.

Datun- if I'm being honest, there's not enough information to decide. I like to think with hindsight all officers would have done it differently, but as it was it seemed to have followed procedure.

Thanks rod.

I've heard a lot about DASH checklists and so on in terms of helping identify violence, and getting police to think about coercive control. What's the view in the force?

Just to say these are my personal views. I'm not claiming to represent any forces views

Coercive control is a really poorly written piece of legislation, that any decent defence solicitor can drive a tractor through. The DASH form is a bit of a comfort blanket. I don't believe it protects victims, but is there to protect an organisation. Don't get me wrong, It can be useful in order to assist with safety measures but it isn't particularly helpful evidentially

I've also taken on board other feedback and name changed. A previous poster was right. Probably a bit insensitive

I think Rod that it is 'your personal views and attitudes' that are the main problem on here. I understand that you are entitled to your opinions, but you (and your colleague) have used this particular thread in a manner that frankly highlights your contempt and exasperation for 'civilians'. Posters on here are rightly horrified at the ordeal that bereaved parents had to go through before the police finally investigated their daughter's murder effectively and the murderer was jailed.
I am another one who is as responsible and law abiding a citizen as you will find and yet I am dismayed by the manner in which you have conducted yourself. You do your colleagues in the force a great disservice by posting as you do.

The answer "Because the Pathologist Said So" has to not be good enough, going forward, when there are officers who actually thought something was amiss

I agree- but I can't see how. The cause of death is obviously fundamental to whether there's an investigation

I still wonder what signs caused the pathologist to diagnose accidental suffocation as the cause of death, as opposed to suffocation. Obviously there must be such signs, but if they are only reliable to a percentage, this needs to be known and taken into account.

Well exactly. Pathologists are human and can make mistakes. So what checks and balances are in place? Would love to hear an answer to this substantive point.

I think there is a shortage of pathologists in this country?

So i think part of the problem is you take who you're given. There isn't the luxury of being able to choose a pathologist you know is thorough and good at their job. Like all dr's, some will consider all possibilities for a diagnosis, some will decide before they even examine a patient that it won't be x, y, or z.