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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Susan Nicholson case - heartbreaking

326 replies

HeatedCatFurniture · 28/08/2017 21:35

I've read bits about this before but this article sets it all out in detail.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/28/the-police-knew-another-girl-had-died-in-his-bed-robert-trigg-susan-nicholson

It's appalling. Those poor women, those poor families - and that elderly couple, spending years and £££ bashing their heads against a brick wall of indifference from the police.

And so many of the officers named in the article are women, too.

OP posts:
Datun · 31/08/2017 12:28

Elendon is probably at work.

FlaviaAlbia · 31/08/2017 12:32

Yes, and while we're waiting I'd love you to answer AntiGrinch's post which is the essential question on the thread.

Useless you can't of course, in which case, say so, you'd earn more respect that way than constantly going on and on about Elendon.

scallopsrgreat · 31/08/2017 12:47

You know what. We are looking at the procedural short comings and we are allowed to. We choose to look a the short comings from a victim's perspective. It may be that we don't understand the nuances and the ins and outs. But that doesn't really matter in the context of this discussion. What matters is that these two women were failed both by the police and the coroner. Yes we may have got some of the details wrong, but to focus on that rather than what the police could have done and could do in the future to prevent this happening again. And yes thinking outside the current confines of police procedure is useful. Taking it down to the detail takes the focus away from the real issue and puts it back on us silly little feminists not understanding it all. But hey ho that is what obfuscators do.

I haven't attended a scene of a sudden death. My partner has attended many. Imagine the scene. Fire in a house. Body on the floor. Fire started around the body. Blood on the handle of the hoover standing nearby. The police at that scene had a hard time thinking what may have happened to the poor dead bloke on the floor Confused.

It really really doesn't take a leap of imagination to think that the police missed the red flags at these two murder scenes. Blaming it all the coroner is disingenuous.

And yes I am now coming to the conclusion you are male (I suspect I'm not the only one). Does it bother you? Are you male? I don't much care either way tbh - getting rude and annoyed (and far more) when women won't back down is pretty much a societal trait. The expectation is there in both sexes that women will back down and when they don't they are deserving of abuse.

And you are the one implying you are frustrated by saying you are provoked into being rude by posters on this thread. There must be some level of frustration to resort to rudeness (why did you come on this thread in the first place if wasn't frustration with some inaccuracies). "I tried that. The level of abuse was exactly the same. I should just sit and take it?" also indicates a level of frustration. And no you didn't try at all.

I too have no idea what link you want from Elendon. Has she also failed to understand something or said something that might be Shock incorrect? Do you want to show her up for the fraud she is? Will that make you feel better?

SophoclesTheFox · 31/08/2017 12:57

Rod, If you'd come on and said "Policing is hard, sometimes people mess up, sometimes you get cynical, sometimes stuff gets missed, but you know what? we do care and we do try", I'd absolutely get where you were coming from. But as 8ve read through the thread, that's not what i'm getting - you're coming over as dismissive, like no one should be allowed to question the police? He has been found guilty of murder, so obviously the process was flawed somewhere. If only the responding officers had been as tenacious in seeking answers are you are with your question of elendon.

It's reinforcing what those poor parents have gone through all these years. Refusal to countenance errors. Giving the impression that DV can't be policed effectively. That women just get murdered and it's hard to figure out why.

and as for the other cop who popped into the thread to lol at you telling us stupid civvies what's what...urgh.

Ereshkigal · 31/08/2017 12:57

The constant grandstanding and haranguing of @Elendon for a "link" based on her turn of phrase is fucking tiresome. Give it a rest. It's just dull.

Rodhullstvaerial · 31/08/2017 13:12

The constant grandstanding and haranguing of @Elendon for a "link" based on her turn of phrase is fucking tiresome. Give it a rest. It's just dull.

Nothing to do with her turn of phrase and everything to do with completely unapologetic ignorance of law. Why shouldn't she be called out on it?

FlaviaAlbia · 31/08/2017 13:17

Because it looks like you're desperately avoiding anything other than taking a pop at her now...

tiktok · 31/08/2017 13:23

I think Rod does indeed need some updates in effective communication. My understanding is that the police are keen on this, and my own recent direct and indirect dealings with the police, (professionally and personally) including an assault case where I was a witness have been good. None used the word 'feminist' as a sneer, for example :)

I propose we ignore Rod's contributions, in favour of discussion of the topic.

What worries me about the case here is the lack of redress when you feel an investigation has been poor. The poor elderly couple here spent £kkk, on correcting a miscarriage of justice. For most people, this would be beyond their means.

AntiGrinch · 31/08/2017 13:29

tiktok - I agree with everything in your last post.

Let's forget Rod. He's intellectually and socially out of his depth. He can't defend the indefensible and he's made some sadly typical mistakes in trying to.

The law and police procedures are supposed to serve purposes: speaking a little grandly, when working as they should, they should serve justice, truth, and peace. An elderly couple had to work very hard against the system, towards justice, truth and peace. Whether the individuals failed or the procedures are wrong is a question we can't usefully interrogate while a blinkered procedures-droid (procedure is always correct!) is banging this drum. He's a waste of our attention.

Datun · 31/08/2017 13:41

Judging by the horrendous Dispatches link upthread, it's all too common.

An undercover cop revealed (amongst other things): officers taking an hour to pick up a Chinese takeaway whilst they were written in as doing clerical work, and being charged a pound per person (dodgy), deliberately ignoring callouts, despite being a street away, ignoring (driving past) a man who was passing out due to slashes to his wrists, telling a police officer to keep out of the custody suite because they were playing cricket, playing poker instead of walking the beat, not sending a SOCO to a rape victim, refusing to answer a call out because they were eating lunch and more sexist incidents than I can write.

This was in the space of a few months. At just the one station.

Ereshkigal · 31/08/2017 13:46

I want to watch dispatches but am at work. I can imagine.

Datun · 31/08/2017 14:09

Ereshkigal

I wasn't intending to watch the whole programme, but it was very compelling, so I did.

Rodhullstvaerial · 31/08/2017 14:24

Let's forget Rod. He's intellectually and socially out of his depth. He can't defend the indefensible and he's made some sadly typical mistakes in trying to.

Amazing. First the name calling, now insults and now going for the let's ignore strand of bullying.

Were you like this at school? Trying so hard to fit in with the crowd, in an attempt to make them look past your frizzy hair and your slight chub, that you'd happily indulge in that sort of behaviour? Sad really.

Of course you're used to girls/women Just moving on in an effort to be left alone. I'm not going anywhere so clearly I'm a man?

Disappointing level of logic from my intellectual and social superior

Datun · 31/08/2017 14:26

Trying so hard to fit in with the crowd, in an attempt to make them look past your frizzy hair and your slight chub,

Another person who would be rubbish at poker.

PatMullins · 31/08/2017 14:40

Typical bully boy copper behaviour

Ereshkigal · 31/08/2017 14:54

Any comment on anything, you know, relevant, Rod?

MadgeMidgerson · 31/08/2017 14:58

Again with the snarky responses as though the heart of this isn't a murdered woman, and the man who very nearly got away with it due to shoddy policing

She was a real person, and now she isn't in the world anymore.

I find the frizzy hair et al. jibes callous and heartless

PatMullins · 31/08/2017 14:59

Not to mention misogynistic, Madge.

MadgeMidgerson · 31/08/2017 15:01

it is disgusting, and wholly lacking in basic empathy

tiktok · 31/08/2017 15:17

Ignore, ffs.

Rodhullstvaerial · 31/08/2017 15:21

Not to mention misogynistic, Madge.

Thanks Pat. I'm glad you agree. It is indeed misogynistic to suggest that a woman sticking up for herself must be a man! And on a feminist page. Disgusting.

Ereshkigal · 31/08/2017 15:26

Yes, agree we should ignore.

PatMullins · 31/08/2017 15:32

I think posters assuming you're a man are doing so based on your superiority complex and terribly misplaced sarcasm and sneery tone on a thread about two murdered women and the micarriages of justice which seem so prevalent in these cases.

But yes, obviously assuming you're male based on the things you've said and the way you've said them is far worse than supposed law enforcers clapping their hands with fucking glee trying to get one over on women with actual real life experiences of DV and pathetic excuse for police officers.

As I said before, I've lived this; I grew up with that tone. You're a stuck record so I agree with pp's and will ignore you also.

Rodhullstvaerial · 31/08/2017 15:46

I think posters assuming you're a man are doing so based on your superiority complex and terribly misplaced sarcasm and sneery tone on a thread

Yeah! What a bitch. Sticking up for myself against insults and abuse when I'm not part of your little gang. I should have just rolled over and accepted it. I really should know better.

Datun · 31/08/2017 15:52

Rod

I don't know if you're a man or not. But you are coming across as sexist. I'm not sure you realise it though.

But in the spirit of the thread, what would you have done differently to the officers in the opening post?

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