Someone has complained about a maternity leaflet mentioning women asits not inclusive of TransParents

[SoPassRemarkable]

Leaflet talks about a family friendly service and then says that all women should have access to information so they can make informed decisions.

Seeing as only women can be pregnant and women should be the ones making choices about their bodies I don't see the problem with the leaflet.

It's a woman who's complained.

Source?

Personal experience, so sorry no media story.

Thank them for their comments and carry on. Its just virtue signalling.

Is it a woman who has complained, or a TW?

A female member of staff. I'm having to sit on my hands. Daft thing is I wouldn't put it past the bosses to decide to change all terminology.

Apparantly;

" Transgender men and non-binary people also need access to medical care to do with their reproductive health... and may choose to carry a child.

But sure... lets misgender patients by using gendered language when we don't have to!"

How irritating.

That's ridiculous.

We could have 'mother to be', 'expecting mothers' but they do state the bloody obvious that to carry a child you are a biological woman.

Woman isn't about gender. Woman is about biological sex.

Be a trans woman/man, gender fluid, non binary, i don't care and I will support and repsect you. But don't start pissing on biology.

You might point out that changing the language for women around motherhood, is going to piss off most of them.

Many women, in terms of starting a family, are incredibly protective of the femaleness of it.

Removing that aspect to satisfy what must be almost zero other people is ludicrous.

If they really, really want to rewrite it, you could suggest they have two leaflets. Keep the original one to be sent out to everybody, and the other to be sent out to anyone who objects on the basis of their identity.

What they should not do is substitute one for the other on the basis of a vanishingly small possibility.

Unfortunately people tend to think that being inclusive is going to satisfy everyone. But I disagree. I think many, many women will be highly pissed off.

Another option would be to asterisk the term 'woman' and explain at the bottom they are referring people of the female sex. However they acknowledge parent in question can also be transgender and point to other relevant information.

ponderingprobably

"Another option would be to asterisk the term 'woman' and explain at the bottom they are referring people of the female sex."

Excellent suggestion. Serves the dual purpose of retaining the word woman, and reiterating that it refers to sex, not gender. Which cannot be repeated enough.

Just explain to your colleague that the leaflet references sex, not personality.

"Apparantly;

Transgender men and non-binary people also need access to medical care to do with their reproductive health... and may choose to carry a child."

I cannot roll my eyes enough at that, and I don't think I could sit on my hands either.

A leaflet using the word 'woman' does not stop TM and NB from accessing medical care - unless they are absolute fools. They know they are female, they were born female; if they want to pretend that the word 'woman' does not apply to them then it is just one huge cutting off their nose to spite their face.

We are all encouraged to take responsibility for our own health, and I see no reason to assume that TM and NBs are any less capable of that than anyone else.

Your colleague needs to be asked in what way does this leaflet prevent anyone who knows that they are female from accessing medical care. Because every female knows they are female.

Because every female knows they are female.

Quite.

You can identify as male all you like. But if you are accessing women's services. It's because you have the biology of a woman.

Not a penis.

I'm sure service providers can tailor their language to suit each client face to face. Maybe your colleague can print off some copies of reworded leaflets for when you get a trans client who prefers them.
Meantime the majority of the women who access the service want to feel included and understood. And the majority are women who wont appreciate cold, gender neutral language.

I hope this doesn't sound dickish because I'm just thinking something out loud.

Surely most trans men are trans men because they feel male and having their female anatomy causes them a huge amount of distress? So the vast majority of transmen will not want to be pregnant because that's a womans thing.

Just like many transwomen actually wish to be female, their male body causes them distress so they don't want male genitals, want breasts etc.

So really the busybody at work is getting annoyed not in defence if trans people, but a minority of trans people who neither wish to be identified by their biological sex, not be reassigned to match their gender identity and yet despite hating their biological sex want to undergo biological processes associated with their biological sex?

To me, if you are a trans woman then ultimately you don't want a male anatomy surely? If you're a transman, you'd not want a process that's part of the dysmorphia you feel?

If you're a transman, you'd not want a process that's part of the dysmorphia you feel?

You would think that. But dozens of reports of "man gives birth" prove the opposite.

Many transmen just want to get to feel superior to other women and that's basically it. No surgery required.

See I'm not convinced it is a huge group. I've got a couple of trans and non-binary friends and they are all disgusted by the way these loud trans activists carry on. Apparently in their trans circle the bullying activist types are really disliked.

All they want is to go about their business, live as their gender and be accepted for who they are, not be given loads of preferential treatment.

Some transmen want a biological child of their own, that's probably all there is to it. No need to look for ulterior motives.

I'd tell them to go fuck themselves, personally.

noeffingidea
That's whay I struggle with. I consider myself inclusive and liberal and yet I can't get my head around somebody saying they identify as male and as a man wanting to go through pregnancy, which is a biologically female process.

They are accessing maternity services. Biological women get pregnant.
I can't see a problem with the leaflet.

Do you work somewhere like a hospital/clinic that also has leaflets about services for men/men's health issues? If so, I'd absolutely insist that they also remove all references to men from, say, their erectile dysfunction/prostate cancer etc leaflets and refer to them as a 'person with a penis/prostate'. Let's see how long it lasts then.

See I'm not convinced it is a huge group. I've got a couple of trans and non-binary friends and they are all disgusted by the way these loud trans activists carry on. Apparently in their trans circle the bullying activist types are really disliked.

Interesting, but might be coincidence.
I have met quite some trans and non-binary people on the internet, and they're all misogynist asshats who either scream "TERF! Die in a fire!" when someone politely disagrees with their gender ideology, or cheerfully and without feeling bad about it side with such a person.
(Coincidentally all those utterly disgusting people are part of a group I used to be somewhat friendly with. Or, well, I was friendly with them, they obviously lacked any positive emotion towards me.)

The only decent trans people I've met on the internet were the few who sided with women-identified women on mumsnet. And interestingly, those were all males, if memory serves.

I haven't ever met a transman who didn't ultimately turn out to hate women.

Some transmen want a biological child of their own, that's probably all there is to it. No need to look for ulterior motives.

No one said females who get pregnant have "ulterior motives". One simply wonders what their alleged maleness consists of, if it is neither dysphoria about their female bodies, nor about preferring the male set of stereotypes to the stereotypes forced on women.

Maisypops I can't see a problem with the leaflet either. I don't believe that the majority should have to adapt to the minority.
I think most trans people do accept that they can't change their biology. Some transmen still have their periods, so it's not like they can forget. If the drive to have a biological child is strong presumably they can overcome any dysphoria concerning their reproductive system. It's either be pregnant or find a surrogate, which isn't the easiest thing to do in the UK.

Thats really interesting.
It fills me with hope that my friends know a reasonable amount of non misogynist trans activists. Maybe that's because their group is more towarss non-binary than trans so they are quite feminist in their world view. Or because my friends are lovely they dont associate with misogynisy dickheads.

I do hate how its always womens things being eroded e.g. transmen claiming pregnancy isnt biologically female, that sanitary products cant be called feminine care / trans activist trans women weighing in on lesbians etc.

Well it kind of escalated today. Can't quite remember all the gems although "some women have prostates, some men have vaginas" was one. Apparantly we're been disappointingly trans exclusionary and have been directed to read a book written by a transman who was pregnant and how excluded he felt by maternity care.

We are now no longer allowed to discuss it. Things got a little heated. Doesn't look like we will be changing our terminology though.