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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Life choices

91 replies

Aryo · 16/08/2017 11:36

Hi, my name is Oliver. I have been recently in a debate with my mother about a big life choice I am about the make. I want to be a father at some point and I have read a lot of literature in the last few months about women's problems and why they would not have babies. So I am in the third year of my PhD in a rather famous NY university and my idea is that I should deliberately quit and go for something that I can give up at some point to become a stay at home father. The thought behind that is, that since woman don't won't to be forced out of their job because of a baby, because it is the logical decision for the parent with the lower income to drop out and look after the kids, I should deliberately try to be that one, in order to be more attractive as a potential father. I currently do have a girlfriend, so that is not the issue, and I had never problems finding a mate, but I cannot find any girl that would even entertain the idea of having a family.

Am I betting on the right horse here or is my mother right and I am destroying my future?

OP posts:

Original poster

Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:54

Okay, I think I got all your points! I will think about a better way and talk to my girlfriend about it. Thank you so much!

OP posts:

Vonklump · 16/08/2017 12:54

What if the woman of your dreams has plans of a sabbatical if/when she has children, or of a career break?

Fruitcocktail6 · 16/08/2017 12:54

Jeez, to me you would be incredibly unattractive and you are seriously overthinking this.

Some women, shock horror, actually want to be the main carer for their children. I do, I don't have kids yet but I am extremely lucky that DP will be able to support us all when we do have children.

SpaghettiAndMeatballs · 16/08/2017 12:55

No, that's not it! What I meant is that women want to have a career, and child bearing forces them out of it. So the solution is for men who want to be fathers to earn less or equal than their wifes so there is no force on anyone

The one doesn't follow the other. Child bearing doesn't force women out of a career - societal pressure or a woman's personal choice does that.

Earning power is given as an excuse - but it's an excuse for society, a society that under pays women, and seems to think that earning power is what matters most, or down at brass tacks, for a couple who simply can't afford to have the higher paid out of work.

The solution is to take this earning power out of the equation - by both working, by both earning enough that the choice is freely made, by increasing the earning of women - any or all of these, not by forcing the issue by making yourself unemployable.

Original poster

Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:56

@Datun Why would I have debts? I am not from the US. There are no debts from my eduction. I am getting a scholarship at the moment and don't have to pay for my education any longer!

OP posts:

Datun · 16/08/2017 12:58

Today 12:51 Aryo

But you're not addressing the problem. You're accommodating it in the most extreme way possible.

For your own ends.

It's not a feminist decision, either way.

But it is a decision. Own it. You don't have to force your future wife to give up work because you are earning more money. You just don't.

At worst, you will be in the same situation you are now in reducing your earning potential.

Take the maximum paternity leave, let her take the maximum maternity leave. Think about working in a school, as you get the same time off as the children.

Or take a career break for five years, and then go back to work. Be poor for those five years, then make it up as best you can.

NoLoveofMine · 16/08/2017 12:58

I'd only consider having children if the father was going to be the primary caregiver (though I probably won't anyway). If the OP is genuine then there are aspects of him I quite like. However, it'd probably best if everyone at that stage pursued their education as far as they could/were motivated to do so they had all options open to them.

QueenLaBeefah · 16/08/2017 12:58

I think you should absolutely go for it. Follow your dreams.

Original poster

Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:59

"The solution is to take this earning power out of the equation - by both working, by both earning enough that the choice is freely made, by increasing the earning of women - any or all of these, not by forcing the issue by making yourself unemployable."

I am certainly not unemployable. I got two Bachelor degrees and a masters degree. I worked as a tutor, as a software developer, as a waiter, as a agricultural worker and as a butcher's helper in the past.

OP posts:

Datun · 16/08/2017 12:59

Aryo

Oh, sorry, I was under the impression you lived in the US.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 16/08/2017 13:01

I don't want to be 40 one day childless and alone

Some of the best people I know are exactly this (though I'd say "childfree and single" as being a bit less dismissive). It actually has much to recommend it, and it's in no way indicative of failing at life.

This. IMO being childfree & single in my early 40s is total heaven.

Original poster

Aryo · 16/08/2017 13:02

@Datun I do half of the year, but I did my previous studies in europe.

OP posts:

NoLoveofMine · 16/08/2017 13:03

This. IMO being childfree & single in my early 40s is total heaven.

It sounds great to me. By that age I hope to be thriving in my career and enjoying regular trips to the pub

GavelRavel · 16/08/2017 13:03

it's your perceptions that are nonsense. I've got a PhD and a high paying career and have children (and happen to be a woman). It's perfectly possible. My partner also works (I earn more). You don't need to have a stay at home parent, or can take it in turns at various points in your career. Incidentally, a career as a research scientist, if that's where you're heading, is quite a good option with a family as the housrs can be flexible and most hospitals and labs have on site childcare (in the UK anyway)

The reason you can't find anyone to follow this bonkers plan is because, presumably, you are quite young and so are the women. Not ready to have children get as opposed to not wanting to do it full stop.

my advice is finish your PhD, get a well paid job, grow up a bit and then try to meet a woman with equal earning power so you can have a nice life together and pay for childcare so you can both work, if you want to.

Datun · 16/08/2017 13:05

OP. Just talk to your girlfriend, and gently introduce the subject of your future together. See what she says.

Then come back and report.

NellieUnkles · 16/08/2017 13:08

What I meant is that women want to have a career, and child bearing forces them out of it

It doesn't, you know. I have an Oxford doctorate and am married to someone else with an Oxford doctorate, and having a child hasn't changed our working lives. It's not compulsory for anyone, regardless of sex, qualifications or salary, to become a SAHP.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 16/08/2017 13:13

Jeez, to me you would be incredibly unattractive and you are seriously overthinking this

Some women, shock horror, actually want to be the main carer for their children

And to me for a different reason. I'd never have picked someone who had the idea that mummy (or daddy) stays home with the children and daddy (or mummy) earns the money. At your life stage I wanted a partner as ambitious as myself.

SpaghettiAndMeatballs · 16/08/2017 13:14

Well, then own the decision, if you don't want to complete your PhD, then don't - but do it for you, don't do it for this imagined life that you don't yet have.

BTW. I am outstandingly curious where you live where you can have 2 Bachelors, a Masters, and be 3 years into a PhD with no debt - I got my degree long enough ago that I got a grant, and I still came out with debt - the grant just about covered my rent and nothing more!

grasspigeons · 16/08/2017 13:22

I think you should focus on your household management and cleaning skills. This is the area that seems to cause most tension and would allow a mate maximum time to earn and see her children without being bogged down by remembering and organising everything else that makes life happen

Datun · 16/08/2017 13:22

SpaghettiAndMeatballs

I'm struggling with that too. In what universe is deciding to confine yourself to merely having two bachelor degrees, and a masters, limiting your earning potential? To any significant level.

AssassinatedBeauty · 16/08/2017 13:24

It is madness to drop out of a partially completed PHd for some potential future ideological position. Get your PHd, then worry about it afterwards. As others have said, I find it offensive that you think you have to lower yourself to the position of women in order to give your (future?) girlfriend an equal footing.

If she doesn't want to be a SAHP then even if you're the major earner it's possible for a period of time. You may have to accept a lower standard of living than you'd like though. You can also both keep working if that's a preference too. There's no need to "sacrifice" your future career in order to make being a SAHP more possible.

Datun · 16/08/2017 13:27

grasspigeons

Excellent point. A bedmaking, list producing, laundry symbol translating course, with a credit in Play-Doh and another in 'how to go through every item in your fridge to decide if a dinosaur would eat it', would be a lot more useful than a PhD.

SpaghettiAndMeatballs · 16/08/2017 13:30

'how to go through every item in your fridge to decide if a dinosaur would eat it'

ROFL!

Original poster

Aryo · 16/08/2017 13:30

@SpaghettiAndMeatballs
Austria, you pay 18eur per semester if you are under a certain age and 300eur per semester if you are beyond that age. That is if you are a EU citizen. Non EU citizen's pay up to 1600eur per semester.

OP posts:

Loopytiles · 16/08/2017 13:33

Some women (me included) would neither want to be a SAHM nor want our partner to SAH.

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