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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Life choices

91 replies

Aryo · 16/08/2017 11:36

Hi, my name is Oliver. I have been recently in a debate with my mother about a big life choice I am about the make. I want to be a father at some point and I have read a lot of literature in the last few months about women's problems and why they would not have babies. So I am in the third year of my PhD in a rather famous NY university and my idea is that I should deliberately quit and go for something that I can give up at some point to become a stay at home father. The thought behind that is, that since woman don't won't to be forced out of their job because of a baby, because it is the logical decision for the parent with the lower income to drop out and look after the kids, I should deliberately try to be that one, in order to be more attractive as a potential father. I currently do have a girlfriend, so that is not the issue, and I had never problems finding a mate, but I cannot find any girl that would even entertain the idea of having a family.

Am I betting on the right horse here or is my mother right and I am destroying my future?

OP posts:

Original poster

Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:22

I wasn't planning an academic career. I am doing mathematical analysis on biological data and planned on doing something in tech, since I learned a lot about machine learning and neural networks in my studies.

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Datun · 16/08/2017 12:22

You've come this far. Complete, then decide.

SpaghettiAndMeatballs · 16/08/2017 12:24

I just don't want to be unattractive for a possible future wife. That's it and I feel that this is something women are looking for

They're looking for someone to be an equal partner raising kids for sure, but in no way does giving up your PhD when there is no child, and no girlfriend facilitate that.

You can always give up your job later (just like a woman might)

Theducksarenotmyfriends · 16/08/2017 12:25

What does your girlfriend think and is this someone you want to have kids with? I'd find it a bit bizarre to be honest that someone would give up a phd when they're so close to completing it based on some future hypothetical situation/woman. I wouldn't find it an attractive quality, especially for the reasons you've stated....

It's perfectly possible for both partners to continue with a career after having kids you know. I'd say it's essential in the USA due to costs of college (and health care, and everything else!). Kids don't stay little forever and you'd want them to have these opportunities right?

Original poster

Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:26

I had many long term relationships, but I never met a girl, who would entertain the thought of having a family one day. What is the reason then? I was independent since my 19th birthday, always hard working. Always dated students of my own age plus minus 3 years, was always responsible and never had any big problems

OP posts:

SophoclesTheFox · 16/08/2017 12:28

I don't want to be 40 one day childless and alone

Some of the best people I know are exactly this (though I'd say "childfree and single" as being a bit less dismissive). It actually has much to recommend it, and it's in no way indicative of failing at life.

Anyway, I don't think you've identified a good strategy. It's liable to creep women out rather than reassure them. Back to the drawing board!

Original poster

Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:29

My girlfriend just found a nice job a year ago. I have talked about quitting my PhD. with her, but did not give her my reasoning. She is so happy she found that job. I want to do the right thing for both of us

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Datun · 16/08/2017 12:32

What job does your girlfriend do, OP?

SophoclesTheFox · 16/08/2017 12:33

aryo, saying to women "Because I'm such a great feminist, I want to give up my PHD and impregnate you so I can devote myself to raising a child to assuage my desperate fear of being alone and childless at 40, how about it?" is not a chick magnet, dude. That's why it's not working.

Finish your PHD, keep dating, stop panicking.

Original poster

Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:34

software developement

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TheEgregiousPeach · 16/08/2017 12:34

Perhaps tell your girlfriend the reasoning behind quitting?

Datun · 16/08/2017 12:36

Is her earning potential quite low? Do you feel that your desire to be a stay at home dad is hampered by the fact that you will out earn her? And that to address this, you have to reduce your own earning potential, to create a more level playing field?

Because firstly, that's a bit sneaky. And secondly it's not an issue that has even been discussed.

Thenorthbloodywellremembers · 16/08/2017 12:38

Try to find a career that will enable you to work flexibly, and to take on earning responsibility for your family if required. If you have children, unexpected things in life may mean you have to support them on your wage only, for lots of reasons. I would also urge you to look for a partner with similar earning potential to you, so that as a family you have options.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 16/08/2017 12:38

Thinking about it, some time back someone here was bemoaning the fact that men on online dating profiles don't specify how they're going to look after or bring up their children, and about how it would be so much more attractive if they talked about what great parents they'd be, so maybe Aryo is thinking along those lines.

Original poster

Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:40

No, that is not it. She would definitely feel, that she needs to quit her job if I earn more and I don't want to force her to quit her job by out earning her. I would also be willing to do the traditional male role, but I can't bear to force that upon her. If we are comparable we can decide by who loves their job more and who has a greater desire to be a stay at home parent.

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Original poster

Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:41

Thenorthbloodywellremembers

Good idea!

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SpaghettiAndMeatballs · 16/08/2017 12:41

Thirdly, I'm a software developer, without children at 30, but with 2 now, and always earned about the same as DP.

The only reason I don't now is that he's had a bit of luck, and I work for a startup (so hope for some luck in the future).

If you can't get funding for future research, or your area has a downturn, it could easily be that she'll be outearning you without you dropping your PhD (or vice versa - I have a degree (just a first degree, no masters even) and DP has 3 Ds at A-Level, so educational level is only a contributing factor to earning capacity, not a determining one.

Datun · 16/08/2017 12:43

I agree, I don't think it's at all wrong of him to want to be a stay at home dad. Very refreshing, in fact.

It's the way he's going about it.

Citing loneliness as the reason, deliberately scuppering his chances of being the possible breadwinner and, reading between the lines, being rather self-centred about the whole thing. Then wondering why it's not working.

VestalVirgin · 16/08/2017 12:43

Plenty of women with PhDs stay at home with children, so where's the problem with getting as good a job as you can? There's no job you cannot quit once you do have a girlfriend who would consider having children with you. (Except perhaps the military, I don't know how forceful they are about keeping you nowadays)

BrandNewHouse · 16/08/2017 12:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:48

I don't think it is self centered, I am trying to do the polar opposite! Also I have not tried that yet, so the reason why girls are saying they never want to have children can't be that and I also don't believe it has something to do with me specific.

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WellErrr · 16/08/2017 12:48

My idea is certainly based on what I perceive is the wish of many women

Yeah, nice try.

You're trying to prove some dumbass point that women consciously 'choose' to be lower earners.

We're not thick, you know.

Datun · 16/08/2017 12:50

Today 12:40 Aryo

The adult thing would be to talk about it, and decide, despite any disparity in salary. Money really isn't everything.

You are seeing money as the fly in the ointment and being unable to make decisions outside of it.

And although I understand why this is, might I suggest that you have a completely open and candid conversation about what's important and why. And reach an agreement that money is viewed as only part of the conundrum, not the basis on which everything rests.

Original poster

Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:51

No, that's not it! What I meant is that women want to have a career, and child bearing forces them out of it. So the solution is for men who want to be fathers to earn less or equal than their wifes so there is no force on anyone

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Datun · 16/08/2017 12:53

If we are comparable we can decide by who loves their job more and who has a greater desire to be a stay at home parent.

And when the kids go to school, university, or leave home, and you are saddled with a debt of tens of thousands of dollars, she will wonder why the hell you didn't complete your education in order to have the opportunity to earn some money.

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