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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Life choices

91 replies

Aryo · 16/08/2017 11:36

Hi, my name is Oliver. I have been recently in a debate with my mother about a big life choice I am about the make. I want to be a father at some point and I have read a lot of literature in the last few months about women's problems and why they would not have babies. So I am in the third year of my PhD in a rather famous NY university and my idea is that I should deliberately quit and go for something that I can give up at some point to become a stay at home father. The thought behind that is, that since woman don't won't to be forced out of their job because of a baby, because it is the logical decision for the parent with the lower income to drop out and look after the kids, I should deliberately try to be that one, in order to be more attractive as a potential father. I currently do have a girlfriend, so that is not the issue, and I had never problems finding a mate, but I cannot find any girl that would even entertain the idea of having a family.

Am I betting on the right horse here or is my mother right and I am destroying my future?

OP posts:
pombal · 16/08/2017 11:40

Smart move- do it!

deydododatdodontdeydo · 16/08/2017 11:41

School holidays is it?

Datun · 16/08/2017 11:45

Mad idea. Sexist too. Based on your your assumption that you will out-earn a girl.

I'm not sure a being poor, uneducated, sexiest man is the most logical way to increase your dating pool, to be honest.

shivermytimbers · 16/08/2017 11:46

So... Let me get this right... you're making decisions about what a woman would want to do regarding childcare and work without having spoken to her first due to the fact that this is a hypothetical woman who doesn't actually exist.
Brilliant idea. You should definitely do it!

deydododatdodontdeydo · 16/08/2017 11:48

I'm not sure a being poor, uneducated, sexiest man is the most logical way to increase your dating pool, to be honest.

He never has trouble finding a mate Wink

Original poster
Aryo · 16/08/2017 11:48

Why is it sexist to assume that I will outearn a lot of women with a PhD from a very good university? I would also outearn many men?

Please explain?

OP posts:
TheEgregiousPeach · 16/08/2017 11:50

Which 'rather famous NY university' is it then? And what's your thesis?

Original poster
Aryo · 16/08/2017 11:51

I really don't think I am sexist. My idea is certainly based on what I perceive is the wish of many women and I am showing the will to give up a career for a woman, so she does not have to feel bad for making me give up a career and she does not have to give up her own career. By any stretch of the imagination i think that is the most anti sexist thing i can do with my life

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Original poster
Aryo · 16/08/2017 11:53

Rockefeller University,

I am studying the auditory cortex of mice

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Datun · 16/08/2017 11:56

Aryo

So you don't think it's bad that you forgo a career to raise children, but you are holding women to a completely different standard when it comes to that issue. Whether it is they or you who do it. That's sexist, in anyone's book.

Also I'm not sure that 'I've deliberately reduced my chances to a successful career, in order to lower myself to your level, so you don't feel bad' is the best chat up line I've ever come across.

LadyIrisBarclay · 16/08/2017 11:58

It's a sweet idea but you're overthinking this a little.

Firstly, complete your PHD. You're nearly there and it would be a pointless waste to walk away now. Your education is the one thing that can't be taken away from you once it has been gained.

Secondly, this does seem to be a pretty pointless gesture. You're not planning to have children just yet and when you do it may not even be with your current partner so this is all very hypothetical really.

butterfly56 · 16/08/2017 12:00

Aryo At some point you want to be a father?
Usually mature sensible people finish education, get a decent job and save for your future and provide security for themselves or future family...if you're lucky enough to find it.
You sound immature and need to get a grip on what life is like in the real world.

Lenl · 16/08/2017 12:02

  1. Lots of women want to stay with their babies. I have to work part time but work as few hours as I can afford to. I'd love to be able to afford to stay at home while they are young.

Lots of young childless feminists (particularly the ones writing online) bemoan this and assume women who stay at home are forced to/wish they didn't have to. While I'm sure plenty of women want to go back to work, plenty don't, particularly full time.

2)If you earn less so that you can be with a women who earns more, by your own logic she will be a lower earner. So overall your income will be low. Surely it makes more sense to finish studying and get a good job, have lots of savings/own a home outright and make it possible for a partner with a lower income to be able to go back to work more comfortably - as your outgoings will be lower (mortgage paid) and you have a buffer (savings).

3)If you are prepared now to take a drop in income in order to be a stay at home parent, why not finish your degree so you can earn until you meet someone who wants kids and just take the drop in income then rather than now?

I personally wouldn't be more attracted to someone or want to have kids because they earn less than me so could stay at home. That's bizarre logic. In fact when I had my first child I earned four times more than my partner and he had to find higher paid work to allow me to work part time when I discovered I wanted to be at home with my child more.

You also have to think about the long term future. Kids are only small for a few short years then they get exponentially more expensive. If you want to give them every opportunity you can, it's easier with more money.

I think your possible lack of critical thinking skills might be the "mate" finding issue Grin

Callamia · 16/08/2017 12:03

What Datun says...
also, it's perfectly possible to have a PhD AND be a present parent. This is based on my own experience, and those of my male colleagues (in UK and US) - many of whom share care with their (female) partners, including managing nursery, social and school events. Academic careers allow for flexibility not usual in many roles, and so are a bit of a bonus for parents looking to share care.

JasmineGreen · 16/08/2017 12:04

Finish your PhD.

You can make it clear to any woman you are in a relationship with that you are happy to give up your high paying career to stay at home and look after children.

MorrisZapp · 16/08/2017 12:05

What's not to love about this thread :)

TheEgregiousPeach · 16/08/2017 12:05

Finish the damn PhD and discuss career breaks and childcare when it happens, like adults do.

Datun · 16/08/2017 12:05

Ayro

In the unlikely event you're genuine. The best thing to do would be to complete your education and get a well-paid job.

There is absolutely nothing to stop you being a stay at home parent.

You are making an assumption that firstly, you will be the highest paid of the two of you, and secondly that both of you all be so in thrall to your salary, that it's impossible to make a non mercenary decision.

I think your mother thinks you are better than that.

KatharinaRosalie · 16/08/2017 12:10

Why is it sexist to assume that I will outearn a lot of women with a PhD from a very good university? - you can always date those women you don't outearn?

Kids are expensive. Marriages don't last forever. Many parents do not give up their careers permanently, just take a shorter or longer break. It's always good to consider if your career allows breaks to raise a family, but your first reaction of dropping out of school seems somewhat interesting.

TheEgregiousPeach · 16/08/2017 12:12

If you're planning a career as an academic in the US are you sure you'll out earn your future mate? Tenures are short term and hard to get...

Original poster
Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:13

Don't worry, I can take care of myself. I would just start a teaching job at the highschool in my home town. I am more than able to do that with my masters degree.

I just don't want to be unattractive for a possible future wife. That's it and I feel that this is something women are looking for

OP posts:
Original poster
Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:16

The reason is that I will soon be 30yo and I don't want to be 40 one day childless and alone

OP posts:
Original poster
Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:18

Thank you, guys! I will give it some more thought :)

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Datun · 16/08/2017 12:19

Aryo

Deliberately reducing your chances to higher education and earning potential for a hypothetical situation, is not something generally thought to be attractive.

There is absolutely nothing stopping you working at a local school, where your degree isn't needed.

A man who has high qualifications, but then chooses to work in a specific environment in order to raise a family is great.

A man who deliberately hampers himself because he feels women can't make decisions, unless they are based on money, is not great.

Original poster
Aryo · 16/08/2017 12:20

I wasn't planning an academic career. I am doing mathematical analysis on biological data and planned on doing something in tech, since I learned a lot about machine learning and neural networks in my studies.

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