Women only swimming stopped

[Nickynackynoodle]

Because of a complaint. Article and petition link here

I imagine there are plenty of prisons around the world that develop power dynamics like this tbh

True, of course. And I'm sure many men look at that and think God how awful. And then walk away and completely forgot about it.

lass well they're certainly clear to me.

"This is what infuriates me more than anything. Of course they don't see it, it doesn't happen to them."

As you mention later, it's a lack of empathy. Wholly unable and even unwilling to put themselves into the shoes of the woman.

Incidentally, this is why there is so little theft in Japan, schoolchildren are taught what it feels like when someone is stolen from. They are taught empathy. If only they would do the same for men regarding women...

undercover well, lets just think of the Muslim and orthodox Jewish ladies, shall we?
Other forms of discrimination trump religious discrimination. Man wants to go swimming trumps muslim women not wanting men to go swimming.

Angel I don't think there's any reason why religious groups (or any group) can't book sessions for the whole pool anyway. My pool is booked by a swimming club most evenings and is closed to the general public. I expect that would be pretty expensive though.

Man wants to go swimming trumps muslim women not wanting men to go swimming.

No one is stopping the man from going swimming!

No one is stopping the man from going swimming!
If the only time the man can go swimming is during the women-only sessions, then he is being stopped.

I imagine there are plenty of prisons around the world that develop power dynamics like this tbh

A problem men can now solve by identifying their way into the women's prison.
Only not really, because the bigger, stronger men can do that, too.

But the fact men do this, and some women applaud it, shows quite clearly how little empathy people in general have for women. The poor menz must be protected from prison rape at all costs. If they then rape women, eh, no one cares.

If the only time the man can go swimming is during the women-only sessions, then he is being stopped.

And one man whose schedule is so weird that he can only go swimming ONCE a week, which just so happens to be during the women's swimming hour, is clearly more important than fifty women.

What would he do if the pool was closed for maintenance at that time? Tough luck? Would he still have to be prioritized over everyone else?

How many women have to be there to be more important than one man?

In Islamic law, three female witnesses can outweigh one male witness at court. Seems the exchange rate has been changed.

So, in your opinion, how many women are as much worth as one man? Hundred? Thousand?

I must say, Islam is less misogynist than you. Quite a feat.

He literally has one hour in the week which is the only time he can go swimming? Yeah, right.

But in any case - even if we did accept that...
(1) What if that hour fell during times the pool was closed to the public for school swimming lessons? Booked by the local water-polo club? They wouldn't be under any obligation to change their rules for one individual whose busy life happened to conflict with the timetable of the school lessons or water polo club. Why is a women-only swim different.

And (2) One individual's busy life doesn't constitute sex discrimination. Not if there are plenty of times men in general can go swimming. And (as pointed out right at the beginning of the thread) the sex discrimination legislation allows for single-sex activities to be set up to serve particular purposes.

Anyway, I've signed the petition. Good luck to the women in getting their session reinstated.

Yay! Success!

Here's the response I got to the petition, an update on the situation:

11 AUG 2017 — Massive thank you to all 3,000+ of you who have signed the petition so far.

This morning Gloucestershire Live have released an article in which it states that a "spokesman from Stroud District Council said:

“There has been a strong response to our decision to end the ladies only swimming sessions after we received a complaint alleging that we were breaching equalities legislation.

"With the benefit of hindsight we should have taken legal advice and more time to consider our response rather than acting so quickly.""

Full article here

Yay PricklyBall! That's such great news.

I sincerely hope the consultation with their customers is pretty neutral. And they don't try to pressure them in any way.

3000 signatures!

It is interesting that these complaints are only ever one way round. I don't look at the men's shed movement and think "but, but, but I like pottering in sheds making stuff... I demand to be included." I look at it and think "wow, bloody brilliant, a grass-roots male movement to address loneliness and its part in the higher incidence of male depression and suicide - and it's working. Fabulous! More power to their elbow."

Because sane, rational people (of both sexes) can see a difference between small, non-threatening niches of single sex activities to address a particular need and genuine sexism of the "lets make high-tech programming workplaces really unwelcoming to women" sort.

This from the swimming pool rep:

“We should add that we are in discussions with Sport England to see if their exemption guidelines would allow us to reinstate the sessions, however it looks very unlikely that we will qualify for this as exceptions only apply when groups are underrepresented, and at The Pulse, the majority of our swimmers, who come throughout the week, are female.”

Unfortunately the law is missing the point here in that the group who want women only sessions might be women, but they are subset of those women, purely because of their need for single sex sessions.

noeffingidea

lass well they're certainly clear to me

There are sound, rational and objective reasons for single sex facilities, even single sex male swimming sessions. Pandering to religious beliefs isn't one of them.

If the only time the man can go swimming is during the women-only sessions, then he is being stopped

1 hour? He has one hour only ? Hardly realistic.

Even if that were true it could be accommodated by having the single sex sessions over a 2 or 3 week cycle at different times- which might in any case suit the female users better

My local pool run a session for muslim ladies, fine by me if that's what they want to do.

What's not fine is that when I went swimming with my children and husband last week we returned to the communal changing areas to find that 75% off it had been locked with signs stating 'ladies only changing in place'

I had to get the lifeguard to let me in a secret entrance whilst my husband and 2 small children waited outside wet and cold so that I could retrieve all of our belongings from the locker which was now locked within this area.

When I stepped foot through the door I was immediately attacked by the group telling me it was a 'private session' and to leave now.

Didn't realise being white I don't class as a 'lady' in the ladies changing area!

Overly privileged comes to mind

You are right, but I do not think that as a civilised society, that is something to aspire to.

If you see that society as less than civilised all the more reason to make sure the women of the society are catered too as much as possible surely?

Muslim omen in the UK come off as overly privileged to you?

For the purposes of this specific swimming session and lock down on all public facilities yes???

Stop generalising

There is a problem with people letting Muslim misogynists walking all over them for fear of being accused of discrimination.
That intersects with our society's general willingness to throw women under the bus.
But in this specific case seems to have just been shitty management, they should have made sure all other people are changed and out before they close the changing rooms.

Talking of buses, Angel has still not answered my question of how many women are worth as much as one man.

I wonder how Angel's version of the ethical dilemma of throwing one man under a train to save five people from being hit by the train would look like. I suppose if we propose that there's a fat lady that can be thrown under the train to stop it, Angel would not see any dilemma at all, and cheerfully throw the woman under the train. Same with five women who'd be killed if nothing is done.

Still would like to know how many women there must be so they are worth the same as one man.

the complainant is trans

The local council are saying that this is untrue and it would be surprising - surely a TRA would want to join the women's only swim, not shut it down? Militant TW love sex segregation and stereotyping as long as they're allowed to be on the women's team. And a reasonable trans person would just join the mixed swimming.

You can't be 'overly privileged' on the basis of what tiny portion of daily life. That's ridiculous. The 'privilage' is being given so they can fucking go swimming for one hour a week. Such bull shit

If there is a session for one religion then why not for the other groups. No reason for a seperate session, this county is full of many different faiths, mixing together is important and ensures integration, not segregation. I think having sessions like this is unacceptable.

surely a TRA would want to join the women's only swim, not shut it down?

Transactivist is not the same as trans, though ... a good portion of transactivists are just MRAs by another name, and I guess to them, just shutting it down would be good enough.

Also, there's no difference, really, whether you let all men who identify their way in swim during the women's hour, or just shut down the women's hour; in both cases, that time becomes a free for all, ordinary swimming hour.

Women only swimming stopped ebcause of a complaint so if we complain about men only spaces (golf clubs?), will they be closed too?