'Women do it too' sex offences

[MrsKCastle]

I've just been doing a little research into sex offending and came across this article from the Plymouth Herald. It's a bit old but it's an absolutely classic example of how the real story (male violence) is hidden and twisted by focusing on the women who also do it.

For those who don't want to click:

The number of female sex offenders living in our communities has been revealed by Devon and Cornwall Police.

New figures have shown that the number of child sex offences recorded by the force rose to a record 1,498 last year – an average of four each day. The number of offences increased by 10 per cent.

High profile national scandals – like the notorious case of Jimmy Savile – have helped to raise awareness and the number of incidents being reported, both current and historic. And the vast majority of all sex offenders, against children and adults, are men.

There are currently 2,307 men, whose crimes include viewing child sex abuse images online, grooming, rape, sexual assault and sexual exploitation, on the sex offenders register in Devon and Cornwall.

Of those, 10 are males under 17 years of age.

Sex crimes committed by women are far rarer – and far more shocking, perhaps because of cultural stereotypes that they are mothers, carers and more likely to be victims of sex offences rather than perpetrators.

Devon and Cornwall Police have now revealed that there are currently 23 female sex offenders on the register across the two counties.

So, basically the statistics show that women make up less than 1% of sex offenders in that area, yet the article goes on to focus on considerable detail on some of those women.

The 2,307 men are barely mentioned.

No wonder so many people don't see the need for feminism. I just find it so depressing the way the media reports (or fails to report) male violence and sex offences.

Oh here we go. Women do it just as much but there is no evidence of it because of stigma. Yawn.
It's nearly as good as the men's lives being ruined because of false accusations of rape thing. Definitely true because it's happened to several posters brothers.

It's a penis thing (isn't it always). Saying a women can't sexually assault someone because she has no penis is the same as saying she can't run a company because she has no penis.

Who has said that? Rape requires a penis, sexual assault does not.

Women commit murder less than men as well - personally I'd prefer that the male rate came down though, rather than bring the female rate up to match.

Personally I think that size plays a part (as well as all the normal male violence reasons) - if you're a 5th larger than the other 50% of the population, then you have more chances to offend (if you're so inclined) than the smaller group.

From personal experience, I've been sexually assaulted, raped and flashed by men, but never women.

DP has been assaulted by men, but never sexually, so in my little bubble, the stats bare out

No one mentioned stigma???

Oh, and none of that for either of us was reported - so the male violence stats are going to be significantly under-reported too I'd suspect.

'And to say that women don't offend as much as men offends me as a feminist.'

That's just barmy. You are offended by reality.
What do you want women to do, offend more so as to bring it up to male levels?

I know it wasn't. I just wanted to make my position clear on this point.

Ok. I will endever to find the study, it was Canadian. But I no longer has access to the archive so it won't be quick.
Mothers hit their kids. We are so far from prosecuting mothers that batter their kids it's laughable. Because mothers are allowed to discipline their kids and what mother would endanger their kids?
Why are there more convictions of sex offences? Because raping your wife is illegal now, because vulnerable children are more protected and because crimes are correctly categoriesed as sex offences.
And don't accuse me of being unable to accept fact. Don't you dare. Because people still refuse to accept you are much more likely to know your attacker than not. You probably live with them.
Sorry if that offends you. Women are not other, from PEOPLE.

And to say that women don't offend as much as men offends me as a feminist.

Stating facts offends you?

If women offend "as much as men" (which, quite clearly, they don't) then why are women and girls not going around harassing men and boys on the street daily? Boys in school uniform being leered and commented at by adult women as girls are by men? Given this is symptomatic of the view of someone as primarily a sex object existing for the pleasure of the harasser, surely as women are committing as many sexual offences as men this should also be as commonplace?

This is exactly the kind of derailing which always happens when trying to discuss sexual offences.

Even aside from street harassment which is constant, women and girls are attacked by men and boys unknown to them for no other reason than they're female regularly. It scarcely gets reported as it's so commonplace - I started a thread with just a handful of the cases I could remember even reading about from this year alone the other day.

'And don't accuse me of being unable to accept fact. Don't you dare. Because people still refuse to accept you are much more likely to know your attacker than not'

Because some people won't accept another fact, no-one should point out that this is exactly what you are doing?

If you genuinely believe this bizarre claim that women commit 50% of sex crimes you are welcome to show us some evidence or explain why your reasoning has led you to this position. But demanding not to be challenged isn't going to get you very far.

Are the sex crimes committed by women generally of a different nature to those usually commited by men. Vanessa George for example was, I think, guilty of taking child porn type photos on her phone of nursery children and selling them on. I think there was a man in the background too. Still utterly vile of course but I wonder if men are much more likely to actually physically abuse their victims.

Pretending it doesn't exist is a betrayal of victims. No one here is pretending it doesn't exist. Showing and discussing a piece of media trying to make 23 women seem equally an issue to over 2000 men is not denying it's existence.

I've been sexually assaulted by women, once until the bed I was in had so much blood it completely freaked out the next person who came into the room as blood was dripping on the floor. Pointing out the rarity of that does not in any way take away from my experience or "betray me" anymore than pointing out it's rare for a medical professional to sexually assault someone in hospital (which is the above one situation) or that stranger rape or stranger child abuse is far far more rare compared to attacks by people we know. There is nothing feminist or whatever in trying to act like men and women act the same with patriarchal socialization which encourages the use of sexual violence to keep marginalized groups in line.

Mothers can't always protect their kids - some of our mothers didn't try and beat us senseless. However, if you think female violence is treated anything like male violence even for the same acts, I'm not sure what planet you're on or what stats you're looking at. Both of my parents were violent addicts, my mother was shunned by her community while my father was protected and excused and had his crimes hidden and when that wasn't possible blamed on my mother and us kids - particularly the 'don't you know she's just as bad' type talk. That sort of stuff encouraged him to keep doing it because it was only ever used to make those around him look bad.

Women don't offend as much as men period. Offending rates among the female population are so low that women's prisons need to accommodate all categories of prisoners all together under one roof. I just visited one as an educational visitor. In addition to this the SEVERITY of female violent offending is typically less life threatening than the equivalent male offending. So it's not just about numbers but level of harm.This is not to say there aren't female murderers and sex offenders but that offences of for example intimate partner violence, or assault, perpetrated by women don't typically include the perpetrator stabbing to death and almost decapitating, beaten to death, raping and mutilating the victim, using knives and a hammer, suffocated and chopped up, drowned and then thrown off a bridge, all real instances from Karen Ingala Smith kareningalasmith.com/counting-dead-women/2015-2/ or tying her to railway lines www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4603210/Mother-four-tied-rail-tracks-murder-suicide.html

There are so many sex offenders that are male that there are whole prison units dedicated to them alone and there are also prisons dedicated to the many (sexually or otherwise) violent males. The prison service is able to do this because violent male prisoners are so numerous. This cannot be because of biased detection and prosecution because the prosecution AND conviction rate for rape and sexual assault of a female is so very low.

There is another thread running at the moment about a 'woman' being convicted of possession of child porn. Most of the cases I've been able to research are actually transwomen - so men - rather than women. Unfortunately - if you read that thread, it's virtually impossible to find out how many sex crimes (or indeed any crimes) are committed by men who identify as women and actual women.

yet sorry I was being sarcastic, I've been posting here too long so was paraphrasing multiple threads.

I agree with much here, but surely the issue of female sex offending should be publicised/ written about/researched? Are people suggesting it shouldn't be?

user - of course it should be. I would like men (ie transwomen) taken out of that cohort though otherwise all the research and studies are a total nonsense

Agreed Jiggly.

No, I'm certainly not saying that we shouldn't write about it. It's the way it is presented. The article that I linked completely focuses on the women, the headline and a huge amount of the article are all about women sex offenders (I didn't copy the full text, it goes into detail about 4 women case studies). Yet according to the numbers they quote, there are 100x as many men sex offenders in that area, who don't seem worth mentioning.

I'd like to see balanced reporting that recognises that sex offending is overwhelmingly an issue of male violence. I'd like to see it named for what it is.

surely the issue of female sex offending should be publicised/ written about/researched?
I've no problem with anyone researching female sex offending however I do have a problem with diverting effort from the 98% of offences committed by men (or the >98% committed by bio males) to focus on the

I'd also like to learn more about why both women and men offend and of course if there is an issue with women's offences being under reported, then that is a real concern and needs to be investigated. As Jiggly says, we need accurate statistics for that to happen.

I seriously doubt that women commit sex offences at the same rate as men though. That doesn't tally up with my experience of the world and it doesn't tally up with any statistics that I've seen. I look forward to seeing the study that Nonibaloni has read.

I'd like to see balanced reporting that recognises that sex offending is overwhelmingly an issue of male violence. I'd like to see it named for what it is.

Reporting does suggest 'sex offending is overwhelmingly an issue of male violence' and always has done. Sex offending is immediately associated with men in public discourse. How on earth can you suggest it hasn't? There is hardly any acknowledgment on female sex offending, which is pretty much the biggest taboo subject there is. There isn't even that much material online. You've dug out one poor article.

This is much better:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/taboo-tolerance/female-sexual-abuse-the-untold-story-of-societys-last-taboo-1767688.html

Of course we should accept that "women do it too" and take sensible precautions such as not exempting women from having to get a DBS certificate to work with children and vulnerable adults.

But we should not let the discourse on sexual offences get side-tracked towards offences perpetrated by women, given their very very much lower rate (both in absolute and relative terms).

And yes, we should be collecting statistics on offenders by both sex and gender presentation.

Here's another one listed as a female* sex offender in Cornwall.

*Jasmine is not biologically female