Why do men use prostitutes?

[QuentinSummers]

Guardian have published a summary of a research project here
www.theguardian.com/society/2010/jan/15/why-men-use-prostitutes
Men were asked what would put them off. A criminal record, an ASBO or their employer being told was the answer. Finding out the woman was pimped or coerced apparently not so much.
Not sure how that squares with the full decriminalisation model.

Of course not everyone does. But beheadings are there for people to watch if they choose to. It is all there.

We will be dead before the worst of it happens.

But the world is going to get worse in every way. The internet, climate change, biogenetics, war, AI, mass unemployment due to automation - this will make poverty, violence, prostitution, exploitation all worse. This is inevitable.

People used to make an day out of watching public executions. Society seems to have survived.

People used to make an day out of watching public executions. Society seems to have survived.

It just got better and now it is getting worse again. History is cycles.

Human society will of course survive, it will just enter a very dark phase as the global capitalist system collapses and humankind struggles to adapt to a warming climate.

To get back to prostitution, I think the sex industry is completely globalised and digitalised now.

And I have no idea what anyone can do about that.

Before all of you jump on the bandwagon that men are all sexists and think sex is their right and similar arguments, I would propose you consider men as humans first.

Humans do terrible things to each other (yes, the rate of male humans doing this is higher than female but that is another story) and humans lack empathy. They just don't care. They don't think about. Whether or not these women are exploited or not doesn't matter, it's not considered.

Or do you think about the kids that are exploited, the millions and millions of workers in China or Vietnam and elsewhere that live in appalling conditions that produce your sneakers or your jeans or your shirts or your handbags or a plethora of other products, just so you can have them cheap. Do none of you buy products produced under such conditions? If so, respect, but I highly highly doubt it.

"They do feel entitled cadno because they think their desire for an orgasm entitles them to pay a woman who wouldn't ordinarily go near them.
I really don't understand how else a man could justify that to himself other than entitlement."

So it's all luck? To get a hot woman you must be hot? Say 100 men all wanted one woman but she thinks just 5 are good enough for her, then all the other 95 are entitled supposing they'd be willing to pay, and the 5 are what, princes?

Oh not this again.

"the rate of male humans doing this is higher than female"

That right there is not another story. It's the whole point.

They want sex without any emotional involvement or comeback. They pay they call the shots. They're in charge. Hmm. Doesn't look good does it.

No, it's not. And you clearly failed to understand the point made, or didn't want to, which seems a recurring theme. When bad men hurt women it's "because they hate women", when bad men hurt men it's because they're bad, not because "they hate men"? No, humans just don't empathize. And let me ask you directly - do you buy from mainstream brands? If so, how dare you, exploiting people or even kids.

Just as there are people challenging sweatshop conditions there are people challenging sexual exploitation of women and children. This is just a derail in an attempt to shut down discussion.

I'm not automatically opposed to the sex industry, as I don't see an inherent wrong in sex, but I do see a general all purpose worrying attitude towards sex.

This is manifest when we get to prostitution when we get to the treatment of women. Men who use prostitues in the main are excused (outside of feminist circles), which when compared to the hit to a woman's reputation reveals a major bias towards controlling female sexuality.

Women who fall into that category are also at a significantly increased risk of violence from men. This simply cannot be allowed to stand. An attack on one woman simply because of the fact she is a woman is an attack on all women.

I'm not so sure criminalization will fix the problem on its own. It likely requires a complete overhaul and a root look at how we approach, but I do think sex workers are like canaries and reveal some pretty untenable and toxic attitudes.

Whatever we do the one thing I fucking don't want is German style super brothels opening up down the street from me. So sign me up to whomever doesn't want that.

People empathize with the people closest to them most easily, they empathize next with the people that they can see.
Capitalists value profit above all else. It hides injuries, toxic waste,sweatshops and slavery. It discards broken humans.

If most people act like spoiled entitiled children, its up to those of us who arent to parent them. To keep pushing to improve things, to set rules and boundaries.
Thats civilised behaviour. To consider the effect on the majority and on the next generation, and the one that comes after.

If men cant manage to do that, then they are not fit to rule.

Dervel No, not what I was doing, and sorry but you also missed the point. I am not saying prostitution is great, men are great, stop talking out about it. I am saying stop saying "men hate women" as the reason for everything. Point to highlight: My dad mansplains. He mansplains my mom, he mansplains me, my brother. He is the most gentle being I ever met, he simply likes explaining (he even was a teacher once). A blanket "men hate women" is not true and doesn't help. Same way "all Brexit voters are stupid" isn't true and doesn't help.

And the sweatshop was just an example. I feel the same about meat and yet I still eat it because I just ignore it and justify it one way or the other. Same way most of us ignore where some of the things we buy come from. My point just was, why suddenly when it concerns women, is this totally overlooked.

Btw why doesn't it help? Because it's not true. As if it were there is nothing to do to stop men going to see prostitutes as they hate them and enjoy not just the sex but the degradation of exploiting a woman. But if they just don't care enough to be bothered by exploitation, like we are about say sweat shops, then that means you could approach the problem by finding a way of making them care about said exploitation.

I'm a man and I wouldn't have sat and posted for so many years if I thought all the feminists here simply hated men. I think the position is more nuanced than that.

You did not, many responses on the first page do and having lurked a bit is a recurring theme. You did accuse me of wanting to shut down discussion, which I didn't intend to, nor did (imo).

Mrghardy men and women equally buy goods from non ethical sources. Men and women both eat meat in equal measures.

Generally though, women don't buy men for a shag, this is a male on female problem. It is women that are being exploited in the sex industry.

There is no inherent wrong in sex. This isn't about prudery or fear of sex. This is about the idea that one half of the population having to be consistently sexually available to the other half or they will pay to negate consent.

There's another thread on here where a woman is talking about not wanting sex as much as her DH and there are people who are suggesting she put up and shut up or he will look elsewhere.

I tend to think that men are more capable of acting humanely, it seems it's mostly men who fail to agree.

Apologies for that, but it is a common tactic to bring up another issue to center that in favour of what is being discussed.

I think it's an emotive subject, and for a lot of women who have been at the sharp end of sexual objectification, not necessarily in the sex industry itself, I can understand them not centering men's feelings when discussion comes up.

But what you say has merit, now how do we get men to see women as people and not consumable commodities?

Dervel I suppose given that I brought it up I ought to have at least an attempt at an answer, but I do not. I would probably start by simply raising awareness, making sure that everyone knows that if you pick a random prostitute, chances are she was trafficked or exploited.

moomoos I never said they are not exploited. But I disagree. You implicitly assume males willingness to pay stems from hate whereas women don't hate men and thus don't do it. To me that does not ring true, in general.

Personally I haven't said that all men hate women. Personally I believe that across the globe, men are taught that they're entitled to sex at any cost, and that women are second class.

There certainly is a lot of contempt for what men see as a certain type of woman, I.e women who are for sale.

You disagree that prostituted women are exploited, Mr? I just want to be clear about your thinking on this.

By the way I don't believe for a second that men who buy women don't realise that the women are exploited

It depends if you equate hate with less than worthless.

Men who use prostitutes absolutely know they're being exploited. The men exploit them themselves.

If you go onto the websites where men discuss the prostitutes they have used, you'd have a lot of trouble coming away from it thinking they don't hate those women.

And mansplaining isn't 'explaining'.

Mansplaining is a man attempting to explain something he knows little about to a person who often knows all about it, on the assumption that they don't.

So if your dad was explaining something, that he knew about, that would be fine.

If he was mansplaining, he would assume that his opinion was superior, despite evidence to the contrary. The logical extension of which is the people he is explaining it to are inferior.

The fact that this is usually men attempting to explain women's experience, to a woman, says everything.

Yes Datun, mansplaining wouldn't be some random male explaining all about yachting, but it would be some random male telling me all about psychology or feminism.