Girls only schools

[ParadiseCity]

I'm struggling with a potential decision and wondered if anyone would mind sharing their thoughts please...

DD may have the opportunity to go to an all girls secondary school. We have looked round and she loved it. She liked but didn't love the mixed high school (which DS is already at and I think is fantastic).

It doesn't sit right with me to separate children into girls and boys. However I work in a male dominated profession and can see that an environment free from mansplaining and being talked over is very appealing. Just not sure what is for the best.

Didn't you watch telly
No. We didn't have one. That probably does make a difference.

And yes, I did study history, to degree level, but until I was about 16, I really thought the sexist issues still there were just the last remnants of history and would soon be sorted out.

I used to think co-ed was the way to go.

I now believe firmly that single sex is better.

A lot of people worry about all-girls together creating a bitchy environment but I think hat can happen anywhere. Children tend to self-segregate. Don't kid yourselves. Generally the boys will be with the boys and the girls with the girls, come break time. I went to a mixed school and there was a lot of bullying amongst the girls. Having boys around made no difference.

I do believe girls push themselves to the front more when boys are out of the picture.

Equally, in boys schools, there is a greater take-up of arts subjects among boys than there would be in mixed schools.

There was awful misogyny and sexism and my mixed school but that was in the 90s, so going back a bit, maybe things have changed.

"until I was about 16, I really thought the sexist issues still there were just the last remnants of history and would soon be sorted out."

That is the strongest argument against girl's schools I have ever heard!

That is the strongest argument against girl's schools I have ever heard!

Don't worry. Going to a girls' school won't stop men harassing you in the street walking to school.

Well, I felt "built up" as a girl in a single sex school. I gained a lot of confidence and strength from seeing girls excel around me. I also come from a working class background and some of the boys in my neighbourhood were pretty rough, aggressive troublemakers, already petty criminals etc. I would have really hated having to deal with them in the classroom, they would have ruined it for the girls.

I gained a lot of confidence and strength from seeing girls excel around me.

I definitely identify with this. It's brilliant seeing other girls achieving so much, I gain confidence from seeing girls of all ages doing so well in so many areas.

I went to a single sex state school. They're a lot more common in NZ than here. In my town there were three high schools. The girls' school always did best in exam results, then the boys' school, then the co-ed. Every single year.

I would very happily send my daughters to an all-girls school if there was one here.

I don't get the not being aware of sexism if you go to an all girls's school thing. What about all the time you aren't in school? Didn't you watch telly or read the papers? Didn't you study history, or politics or citizenship?

Seems like it's pretty much one extreme or the other really doesn't it?

On one hand you have people like me at mixed schools and have grown up amongst the different expectations and the boys will be boys attitudes and we barely even notice what's going on half the time any more. Having learning disrupted by boys And the comments in class was just normal. And those who feel they were somewhat sheltered from.it all.

T.v. wise I certainly never really watched stuff where it would have been obvious at the time.i watched things like x files and dark skies ghost programs or animal shows. The a levels at my school were appallingly badly run and I dropped out so I can't say whether it was even or not I don't really remember.

It's genuinely fascinating to me.

I will however admit to somehow growing up completely oblivious to it all and thinking that it was all just part of life or part of the job to put up with it. I've had customers for instance yelling all sorts of inappropriate comments and I just shrug it off. I expect it.

And I'm desperately trying to think at what point I started accepting that this is how it is and how boys/men behave and it's my job to just deal with it. I can't pinpoint when it happened

I don't get the not being aware of sexism if you go to an all girls's school thing. What about all the time you aren't in school? Didn't you watch telly or read the papers? Didn't you study history, or politics or citizenship?
I didn't watch much tv no, i did a lot of sport instead. I was surrounded by strong female role models, including my awesome hardworking, super capable (single) mum. We had a female prime minister, things were changing, anything was possible. We seem to be going backwards now, although i suppose we do have a female pm again . When I did come across sexism later in life I had the self esteem and inner confidence/resilience to deal with it, to call it out and not back down, whether it was affecting me or others. That has to be a good thing. I don't think I would have had that if I had been to a mixed school.

I suppose you only really have the luxury of choosing co-ed or single sex if you go private or live in a grammar school area. Aren't state schools usually co-ed?

Interesting thread. DD1 is off to a girls only comp in September so single sex schools which aren't selective certainly exist in the state sector.

She thrives in the company of girls. As an example at guides gets involved in all sorts and will try new things.

I see her growing down in capability in a mixed group. I am convinced that a single sex education is the right choice for her. I realise its not for everyone but think everyone should have the option (I know lots don't).

cuirderussie yeah, I felt like that too. My primary was near a big estate, and a lot of the boys there were well on their way to becoming total scumbags. I was glad to get shot of them.

"I predict that DD1 will struggle socially with boys when she leaves. She finds socialising difficult"

If your DD is introverted and socially anxious by nature, being in an environment that stresses her out (like mixed sex schools tend to with girls) will only make the shyness worse. Take it from an extremely anxious introvert - the trauma from being bullied by both sexes in a co-ed stilted my social skills for years. They only got significantly better (with both sexes) once I ended up in an almost all female workplace.

I've always enjoyed the company of men / boys and I probably have more male friends now than female. I get less anxious about my friendships with men and for some reason I find the friendships more straightforward. I enjoy the banter and humour and they seem less judgmental. I do have a number of close female friendships of course. I work in a team where there are usually more men than women. Girls school would definitely not have suited me for this reason and I'm very thankful I wasn't sent to one.

DD attended an all girls school from11-16.

It was fabulous. She went through puberty and took her first important exams in a completely supportive environment.

So many positive things to say about it.

And she went off to a mixed sixth form with no isfues.

I get less anxious about my friendships with men and for some reason I find the friendships more straightforward. I enjoy the banter and humour and they seem less judgmental. I do have a number of close female friendships of course.

You have close friendships with women who make you anxious, are complex to be friends with and are judgemental but lacking in humour?

I'm very glad to hear that GetAHaircutCarl! The supportive environment is one of the things I love most about school, girls from all years looking out for and supporting others across the years. I also haven't had to leave for sixth form as my school continues into it

Thank you, that's really reassuring Ava, GetaHaircut and NoLove!

There is something interesting about women who rush to claim they get on better with men than women. And who say it by posting on a women's forum.

What do they want us to say in response to it, I always wonder...

What do they want us to say in response to it, I always wonder.

That we are happy they don't want to be friends with us as we don't want to be friends with them, either?

Seems logical.

Are single sex schools representative of real life though?

I thrived in an all girls school. One thing that did and does worry me though is that our separation from boys meant that they were seen as something "other". Perfect other beings. Some sort of prize to be won.

And you won them by being the prettiest, the thinnest.

Those kind of out of touch views amongst high achieving, slightly neurotic girls led to almost obsessive behaviour when it came to boys. Academically we all did well but I do wonder how much our lack of seeing boys get questions wrong, be a bit smelly, suffer from self confidence issues -all the same things that girls do in the classroom - meant that we elevated them to a status above us.

Are single sex schools representative of real life though?

Single sex schools exist in real life.

They are representative of the real life insofar as real life takes place in single sex schools.

Women who went to single sex schools might experience some cultural shock when they experience misogyny in the workplace, but as has been pointed out, girls have plenty of opportunity to experience misogyny while they are not at school, so that's not much of a concern.

And if a girl goes on to become a lesbian separatist, then girl schools are indeed representative of her adult life. She will never be wholly removed from the influence of patriarchy, but then, neither ar girls at girls' schools.
The curriculum is still decided by males, there are, for all I know, male teachers at more or less all girls' schools, et cetera.

What single sex schools offer is an environment in which girls can thrive free from sexual harrassment, stereotype threat, boys monopolising the teacher's time (well document in research studies). It may not be the "real world" in the sense of being a mirror of the worst bits of the adult world, but what it is is an environment where girls can learn, develop their interests and hopefully grow strong enough, sufficiently well-informed and independent that when they won't have had their chances fucked up before they get out into the "real world".