Twitter and where to begin with comments about "terfs"

[MagicalRealist]

Hi, I'm just wondering how to deal with it when people I follow on twitter, whose views I normally agree with and respect, post things about "terfs" and transphobia. As in, is it worth engaging? What can you actually say in 140 characters that could make them think about it more critically when they're clearly at the liberal knee jerk automatic support for transactivism stage?

Its a general question although prompted by something specific yesterday. Someone retweeted comments from people who'd criticised the Mya Byrne "i punch terfs" t.shirt post, calling them transphobic. And there were comments below that in reply to them, mocking the term 'gender critical' as being similar to something the KKK would say about race.

Anyway, I ended up unfollowing the person without saying anything in response to their tweets because I didn't really know where to begin and didn't have the emotional energy to engage properly. It's bothering me that I didn't say anything though and I'm just wondering how other people deal with this kind of thing?

What can you say that might actuallybe constructive as opposed to just registering your disapproval?

I'd never actually seen or even heard about death threats and rape threats against 'terfs' until I came on mumsnet, VestalVirgin - and I'm not sure whether I'd heard the term terf either (usually 'transphobic 'and even more commonly anti-LGBT - as it was strongly presented as just part of LGB rights). I'm not on Twitter, if that makes any difference.

I mainly frequented LGBT websites, had LGBT feeds coming through on Facebook etc (mainly US sites) - and the message was that T was part of LGBT rights, the people opposing it were anti-LGBT and this opposition was being organised by far right evangelical Christian organisations. Other stuff might be 'all over the internet' but we all see our own version of the internet which tends to reinforce one view.

If what you are dealing with on Twitter, is people who are seeing rape threats/death threats against women and are okay with it and understand that you are a feminist not an anti-gay right-winger etc then, I don't know that there is anything you can say to change their minds. However, I think there are other people who can be persuaded - both people who see themselves as pro-trans and people who are just indifferent to the whole issue because they don't see the implications for women.

Something good has come out me poking around on Twitter, trying to work out how it really works: Magdalen Berns has been posting in the last couple of days, both about herself (great shot of her with a completely shaved head hooked up to electrodes) and feminism.

I'm not on Twitter, if that makes any difference.

I've seen it on tumblr, too - I had assumed they didn't make an effort to hide it, and spew their hate paroles on facebook and the like, too.

But yeah, it is probably limited to social media. I imagine they'd not put it on the pages that are meant to "inform" the general public; only on the pages where transactivists talk to each other and confirm each other's opinions.

This Reddit page is a useful / horrifying collection of things that have cropped up on social media regarding Terfs

This Reddit page is a useful / occasionally horrifying / often informative overview of some of the things that transgender men and women discuss in fairly open view

Vestal - Did you not feel appalled by the death and rape threats against "terfs" that are everywhere on the internet?

Only a tiny amount of folk get caught up in this stuff - it just flies right past vast majority of folk

Op you need to follow lots of 'terfs' and link them in when you counter these tweets. Pick and choose, the 'male' terfs can be very helpful for lefty right on dudes spouting crap, then there's gender critical tw, the detrainsioners, the lesbian's who can argue the drop the time case, the mothers of children sacked into this and so on.

For anyone unsure about Twitter I am very old (so my joints tell me) and it took me yonks to figure out mumsnet but twitter was a doddle. Go try.

*drop the t

Christ Olenna that second link is awful, only took me two minutes to stumble accross this gem.

"Every morning when I walk down the street in Bedford-Stuyvesant, my Brooklyn neighborhood, men try to stop me because they are attracted to my body.

“Ayo miss, you are really beautiful. Can I have a moment of your time?” “Damn, ma, you got a fat ass. What’s your name? Do you have a number?”

I usually smile respectfully and keep moving. More often than not, I hear footsteps behind me. I am flattered and terrified; I appreciate having my beauty affirmed, but I don’t know what will happen once this person comes closer.

Many women worry about being sexually harassed or assaulted by men. I also have to worry about what will happen when men find out I’m trans"

From The New York Times no less.

Miffer

Is that person trying to say they pass so well that they're constantly accosted?

Only I'm not sure '“Ayo miss, you are really beautiful.” and “Damn, ma, you got a fat ass", would describe many transwomen.

Or are they just getting a high on being objectified, but pretending it's unwelcome.

I couldn't be arsed reading the whole thing properly after that opener (smile respectfully? Flattered?), but the general gist is in the line. -

Many women worry about being sexually harassed or assaulted by men. I also have to worry about what will happen when men find out I’m trans

It expands that transwomen also have to be scared of murder (not just the run of the mill assault and harrassment that women face because obviously we never get murdered).

It also says that it's cis womens fault they are murdered (obvs) because reasons.

If a woman is raped by a stranger, he's likely to murder her afterwards to cover up the crime.

If a rapist attempts to rape a male trans, then finds out he is male, he might murder him (though perhaps not, because male upper body strenght means a male can fight back better), but not rape him, which means the trans is better off than a woman.

It is really fucking obvious, and if those assholes had a bit of empathy for women, they'd acknowledge that they certainly don't have to worry more than actual women. (Also, they CHOSE it. Actual women don't.)

Actually Vestal I think you will find womens lack of imagination lead directly to transwomen being killed.

Bigot.

/sarcasm

Reddit's a scary rabbit hole, isn't it, Miffer. OTOH it's a useful source because it's completely mainstream and freely available. It isn't some hidden corner of the internet or a semi-private FB group that isn't intended for wider consumption. I always think this is what TRAs are prepared to say when they know others might be listening - what do they say in private?

Anyway, you and Vestal are both wrong, it's TERF mis-gendering that causes actual violence to TW, obv

Miffer - I just went into that Reddit thread you mentioned. There is an interesting comment from a poster who describes herself as gender neutral who says "I'd love nothing more than to just not be acknowledged as any sort of gender unless I attempted to present as such, although I know that's mostly a pipe dream. But really, really, if I could stop falling victim to "mansplaining," that'd be great. It's more frustrating to have my intelligence undervalued than anything."

But, just in case we were concerned that sanity was prevailing, another poster observes that street harassment isn't pleasant, but it is also a privilege because it means that they pass...